09:27
check one two three four five
10:19
you
10:41
check check check check
13:58
you
17:50
you
19:58
you
25:20
you
26:54
the Committee on Science Space and
26:56
Technology will come to order without
26:58
objection that shares authorized to
27:00
declare recesses of the committee at any
27:02
time good morning and welcome to today's
27:05
hearing entitled urban air mobility are
27:09
flying cars ready for takeoff I'll
27:13
recognize myself for five minutes for an
27:15
opening statement but before beginning
27:17
let me just say that we expect some
27:19
members to arrive shortly they are both
27:21
Republican and Democratic caucus
27:23
meetings going on and as soon as those
27:24
caucuses over I think that we'll have
27:26
more members although this is a critical
27:28
mass up here right now
27:29
also note the good audience interest and
27:35
nice to have everybody here and with our
27:38
discussion about such a fascinating
27:40
subject and we welcome our five
27:42
witnesses as well and I'll introduce you
27:44
in just a minute
27:45
for decades flying cars have been the
27:47
object of our imagination they represent
27:50
aspiration innovation and freedom of
27:53
exploration the entertainment industry
27:56
has popularized the concept in
27:57
everything from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
27:59
to the Jetsons from Star Wars to Back to
28:02
the Future let me confess to a couple of
28:05
things this morning several weeks ago I
28:09
was taking a walk at the mall and I
28:12
noticed a mother with a young son off to
28:14
the side and it looked like to me the
28:17
young son was operating a remote-control
28:20
car and suddenly the wings sprouted from
28:23
the side of the car and the car took off
28:25
this was the first remote-control flying
28:28
car that I've ever seen in my life but
28:31
you have to understand that I've been
28:32
collecting articles about flying cars
28:34
since I was at elementary school so I
28:37
was just absolutely intrigued by what I
28:40
saw I have to say I immediately sent
28:43
offer one I flew it in Lincoln Park
28:45
several weeks ago and it worked
28:46
wonderfully at the advantage of this
28:49
particular remote-control car flying car
28:52
plane is that it flies so slowly you can
28:55
sort of stay out of trouble and it was
28:57
up in the top of the trees and flying
28:59
around and landed just wonderfully well
29:01
the only disadvantage is that you can
29:03
only turn left and right you can't do
29:05
much about vertical but that's okay it
29:06
goes
29:07
slowly it doesn't seem to matter I also
29:10
liked it so much that I want to tell
29:12
members that we have
29:14
I ordered a number of these flying cars
29:16
I know a good thing when I see it and
29:19
every member who comes to today's
29:21
hearing is going to get a flying car and
29:35
this is what the car looks like when the
29:39
wings have popped out this can take off
29:42
in 15 feet I could have taken it off on
29:45
the witness table but I decided not to
29:47
because I don't think I could have made
29:48
the turn before I hit the wall and and I
29:51
know what everybody would have said if
29:52
that had happened as far as the members
29:56
go we'll be delivering a box two-year
30:00
office sometime today or tomorrow and
30:03
I've also promised these flying car
30:06
models to all the witnesses today and
30:08
we'll just have to figure out how you
30:10
get it back if you're not from the DC
30:12
area but we'll go figure that out by the
30:14
way it's always been frustrating to me
30:16
to be given a present that required
30:17
batteries and then no batteries so I
30:19
have purchased batteries and you will
30:23
get taped on top of the model six
30:25
double-a batteries so that you'll be
30:28
able to use this car fairly fairly
30:29
shortly anyway it will be great fun and
30:32
I think you'll enjoy it by the way if
30:34
you want to be sure and let me know how
30:38
you did and if you can do take a video
30:41
who knows we may have a video hearing
30:44
sometime soon and so anyway when the
30:48
word gets out I suspect we'll have a few
30:49
more members come as well
30:51
they do have to stay for more than one
30:54
minute however let's see oh I want to
30:57
show you an example that some of these
30:59
clippings these are more recent
31:00
clippings but the most recent clipping
31:02
was actually I'm on a plane Friday night
31:04
flying back home and I'm reading The
31:06
Economist and in the Economist this week
31:09
there is an article on flying cars it's
31:11
called a James Bond special which
31:15
happens to hit two of my personal
31:16
interests both James Bond and the flying
31:18
cars but it was in this week's Economist
31:20
then we have a tariff UGA witness today
31:24
and I went back and I have a clipping
31:26
from 2010 on the plane that I think
31:29
you're going to be selling next year and
31:31
I was not around at the time so I don't
31:34
want any comments but back in 1945 you
31:39
recall the story JC Penney okay this is
31:42
an this is an ad by JC Penney in 1945
31:44
buy your plane at pennies and they said
31:49
for anyway it looked like every family
31:51
was going to own an airplane back there
31:53
obviously it didn't happen but that's
31:55
the kind of aspiration we've had in the
31:57
United States for about this subject for
31:59
a long long time so anyway that's you
32:02
can look at my clips whenever you want
32:03
to let's see our focus today is on urban
32:07
air mobility a concept that can include
32:09
delivery drones and personal air
32:11
vehicles as well as cars that can both
32:13
be driven and flown and advances in
32:17
lithium-ion battery technology computing
32:20
power and electric propulsion are
32:22
providing companies with the tools they
32:23
need to turn science fiction into
32:25
science fact this is the first
32:27
congressional hearing dedicated to the
32:29
topic of flying cars
32:31
one company Terrafugia says that their
32:34
vehicle could be available as soon as
32:36
next year it's called the transition and
32:38
can drive like a car fit into a standard
32:40
garage and be flown in and out of over
32:43
5,000 local airports and uber has a bold
32:46
timeline to make an air based on demand
32:49
transportation system available to the
32:51
public in five years companies like Bell
32:54
are working to design and build the
32:56
vehicles that will operate on the
32:58
network envisioned by uber autonomous
33:01
cars which are impressive and already
33:02
have been the subject of science
33:03
committee hearings don't have the same
33:05
benefits as urban air mobility traffic
33:09
and gridlock challenges are better
33:10
overcome by cars that fly rather than
33:13
drive flying cars also had the benefit
33:16
of enabling emergency vehicles to reach
33:18
their destinations faster and provide
33:20
more mobility options for those who
33:22
cannot operate a car although it'd be a
33:25
while before we see widespread ownership
33:27
and use of personal vehicles that can
33:28
both be driven and flown these advances
33:31
are visible
33:32
on the horizon as policymakers we can
33:35
examine how we can support such
33:36
technological advances while pursuing is
33:39
safe reliable and efficient regulatory
33:41
framework it occurs to me that we're the
33:43
first committee in Congress to have a
33:45
hearing on flying cars but remember we
33:47
were also the first committee to have a
33:49
hearing on drones and several other
33:51
subjects as well so that's one of the
33:53
things that we're about in the science
33:54
committee is the future and innovation
33:56
we thank our witnesses for being here
33:58
today and look forward to the day when I
34:00
can fly a flying car
34:03
I'll now recognize the ranking member
34:05
Eddie Bernice Johnson the gentleman from
34:07
Texas for her opening statement thank
34:10
you very much good morning let me
34:12
welcome our witnesses and Thank You mr.
34:14
chairman for calling this hearing to
34:16
examine urban a motel mobility research
34:19
and development efforts and the
34:21
potential benefits and challenges that
34:25
might accrue from this exciting new
34:28
technology I might say that in the next
34:30
five years if people come to Dallas I
34:33
will make sure that you get arrived in
34:36
reality stuck in a traffic jam who among
34:41
us has never dreamed of riding a flying
34:44
car and coming out of that traffic and
34:46
going and leaping ahead of everybody
34:48
well it might be on the way what some of
34:52
us could only dream of after watching
34:54
episodes of the Jetsons
34:57
might actually happen sooner than we
34:59
think indeed we will here today many
35:02
companies believe that we are in the
35:05
threshold revolutionary changes brought
35:08
about new generation of vehicles a
35:12
multitude of concepts for vertical
35:14
takeoff and landing vehicles many of
35:17
them fueled by recent advances in
35:20
lightweight electric propulsion and
35:22
storage capacity are being proposed with
35:26
the goal of providing convenient urban
35:28
transportation Washington you know can
35:31
really use this too especially where I
35:35
have to go and come from home a proven
35:38
to be safe such concepts could result
35:41
and changing the way goods are delivered
35:43
and people move around
35:45
in turn the innovation generated by you
35:48
am a result not only in creating new
35:51
jobs but also enhancing the productivity
35:55
of workers in existing jobs but as with
35:58
any new technology there are challenges
36:02
to its implementation
36:03
this calls for thoughtful examination a
36:07
panel established by the National
36:09
Academies found in 2014 that
36:12
increasingly autonomous aircraft pose
36:15
serious questions about how they will be
36:18
safely and efficiently integrated into
36:22
the existing civil aviation structure as
36:25
defined by the penalty fully autonomous
36:28
aircraft would not require pilots the
36:32
aircraft would would be able to operate
36:35
independently within civil airspace
36:38
interacting with air traffic controllers
36:41
and other pilots just as if a human
36:44
pilot will board and in command in
36:48
addition to technological barriers such
36:50
as accurately predicting the behavior of
36:52
systems that can adapt to changing
36:55
conditions a feature critical in
36:59
autonomous aircraft widespread operation
37:01
of UE systems will also require
37:05
resolution of applicable regulatory and
37:08
certification requirements regulations
37:12
are needed to ensure that vehicles can
37:15
operate an airspace above cities without
37:17
negatively impacting safety in addition
37:21
certification and safety requirements
37:23
but these type of vehicles would need to
37:26
be developed firmly a major challenge
37:29
will be integrating UAM operations into
37:32
the national airspace in that regard we
37:36
are fortunate that we can leverage
37:38
NASA's work on the unmanned aircraft
37:40
system of the UAS traffic management to
37:44
get a head start examining the issue mr.
37:48
chairman I look forward to the hearing
37:49
for my Witnesses on the benefits and
37:51
challenges associated with Union
37:54
operations are on the road research can
37:57
play
37:58
and enhancing the safety of future UAM
38:01
operations and I'll bet thank you Miss
38:07
Johnson let me introduce our experts
38:09
today and our first witness is dr. J
38:12
Juan Shen associate administrator of the
38:15
Aeronautics research Mission Directorate
38:17
at NASA in this role dr. Shen manages
38:20
the agency's Aeronautics research
38:22
portfolio and guided strategic direction
38:24
including research and advanced air
38:27
vehicle concepts aerospace operations
38:29
and safety integrated aviation systems
38:32
in the development of aviation concepts
38:34
prior to working at NASA headquarters
38:36
dr. Shen served as chief of the
38:38
Aeronautics projects office at NASA's
38:40
Glenn Research Center where he managed
38:42
all of the center's Aeronautics projects
38:44
dr. Shen received a bachelor's degree
38:46
from Yonsei University in Korea a
38:50
master's degree in mechanical
38:51
engineering from California State
38:52
University and a PhD in mechanical
38:55
engineering from Virginia Tech
38:57
University our second witness is dr.
39:00
John Paul Clarke the College of
39:03
Engineering Dean's professor at the
39:04
Georgia Institute of Technology as well
39:07
as the co-chair of the 2014 National
39:10
Research Council Committee on autonomy
39:12
research for civil aviation dr. Clark's
39:15
main areas of research include aircraft
39:17
trajectory prediction and optimization
39:20
especially as it pertains to the
39:21
development of flight procedures that
39:23
reduce the environmental impact of
39:25
aviation dr. Clark received his Bachelor
39:29
of Science Master of Science and
39:31
doctorate of Science degrees from MIT
39:34
apparently you like Cambridge our third
39:37
witness today is dr. Eric Allison head
39:40
of aviation programs at uber prior to
39:43
Ober dr. Allison served as CEO of Z Aero
39:46
where he led the development of the core
39:48
vehicle a two-place self piloted air
39:51
taxi dr. Allison received a Bachelor of
39:53
Arts and mechanical engineering from the
39:55
Milwaukee School of Engineering he also
39:57
earned a Master of Science and PhD from
39:59
the Department of aeronautics and
40:01
Astronautics at Stanford University our
40:05
fourth witness is mr. Michael Thacker
40:08
executive vice president of technology
40:10
and innovation at Bell
40:11
in this role mr. Thakur is responsible
40:14
for leading bells engineering team and
40:15
providing strategic direction for
40:17
designing developing and integrating
40:20
technologies prior to bailed out mr.
40:22
Thakur served as a senior vice president
40:24
of engineering at Textron aviation mr.
40:28
Thakur holds a Bachelor of Science in
40:30
aerospace engineering and a Master of
40:32
Science from Kansas University he also
40:35
holds an MBA degree from Duke University
40:38
our final witness is MS Anna Mehra SEC
40:42
Diedrich co-founder and regulatory
40:45
affairs at Terrafugia she leads
40:48
Terrafugia US regulatory policy
40:50
engagement prior to founding Terrafugia
40:53
MS Diedrich worked to advance pioneering
40:56
strategies and product development at GE
40:59
aviation and Boeing phantom works as a
41:02
recognized leader in aviation and
41:04
innovation he was named one of Boston's
41:06
top 15 innovators by the Boston Globe
41:09
miss Dietrich earned Bachelor and Master
41:12
of Science degrees in aerospace
41:13
engineering from MIT and also holds a
41:17
private pilot license we welcome you all
41:20
to Ford to your testimony and dr. shin
41:22
if you begin chairman Smith thanks
41:28
thanks so much for that great opening
41:30
ranking member Johnson and members of
41:33
the committee thank you for this
41:35
opportunity to testify on NASA's
41:37
Aeronautics research program in the R&D
41:40
challenges related to urban air mobility
41:43
or UAM NASA's Aeronautics is globally
41:46
recognized as the DNA of the aviation
41:49
system for over 100 years we have been
41:53
conducting world-class research to
41:55
enable safer more efficient and more
41:58
environmentally friendly air
42:00
transportation systems we work through
42:03
collaborative partnerships with the u.s.
42:05
aviation industry other government
42:08
agencies in academia to ensure
42:10
technology is quickly transitioned for
42:13
application as the introduction of the
42:16
jet engine revolutionised aviation in
42:19
the last century UAM promises another
42:22
revolution in this century
42:24
this new capability could completely
42:27
transform the urban landscape and change
42:30
our lifestyle urban air mobility is not
42:33
a new idea but in the past the
42:36
technologies were not available to meet
42:39
the safety and economic requirements so
42:41
what's different now firstly enabling
42:44
technologies are within our aggressive
42:46
such as an ability to manage massive
42:49
datasets electric power and propulsion
42:52
systems for quiet sustainable and more
42:55
affordable vehicles miniaturization and
42:59
fusion of sensors in vehicle and
43:02
operational system autonomy second by
43:05
the middle of this century 70% of the
43:08
world population will live in urban
43:10
areas mobility within these cities will
43:14
require different solutions finally
43:17
there is a change in consumer
43:19
expectations across society we are
43:22
bringing technology to end-users on
43:25
demand and at their fingertips now
43:28
technology can enable the same on-demand
43:31
experience in aviation but this new
43:34
market won't emerge overnight UAM will
43:38
start with a mix of onboard pilot and
43:41
remotely piloted vehicles and progress
43:44
toward autonomous operations markets
43:47
will develop incremental e with initial
43:50
markets driven by the need to have a
43:53
solid safety case along the way many
43:56
challenges will need to be solved
43:58
NASA focuses on the critical technical
44:01
challenges where no one company can go
44:04
alone and NASA is already contributing
44:07
we have recently made a history by
44:10
flying our iconic UAS without a chase
44:14
aircraft utilizing the standards that we
44:17
developed and validated we innovated the
44:20
u.s. UAS traffic management or UTM
44:23
concept for for small UAS to operate a
44:27
low altitude in uncontrolled airspace
44:29
today UAM is accepted concept around the
44:34
world through our general general
44:37
aviation size
44:38
57 distributed electric propulsion
44:40
demonstrator we are helping to develop
44:43
and validate standards and means of
44:46
certifying electric propulsion
44:47
components and systems but UAM presents
44:51
many more challenges in technical
44:53
regulatory policy and infrastructure
44:56
areas prevailing UAM vehicle concepts
45:00
employee vertical takeoff and landing
45:03
designs that utilize distributed
45:05
electric propulsion systems and highly
45:08
automated guidance and control systems
45:10
ensuring the safety of these vehicles
45:13
for operation in densely populated urban
45:16
areas will be a major challenge to
45:19
enable UAM operations a distributed
45:21
highly automated service provider based
45:24
system with robust data sharing is
45:27
needed which is precisely what NASA is
45:30
developing today with UTM we will extend
45:34
the UTM concept to meet the even more
45:37
challenging UAM requirements communities
45:40
will not accept UAM operations if the
45:44
noise level significantly exceeds
45:46
background noise levels meeting those
45:50
expectations requires technologies to
45:52
reduce vehicle noise and mitigate noise
45:55
through operational procedures nasa is
45:59
uniquely positioned to make impactful
46:01
contributions to realizing the uan
46:05
vision by providing leadership in
46:07
identifying the key challenges and
46:10
conducting necessary R&D to address
46:13
those challenges we are actively
46:15
shifting our focus to work on these
46:18
challenges building new partnerships and
46:21
leveraging ongoing work to make an
46:24
impact as soon as possible UAM is a
46:27
major economic and transportation
46:29
opportunity that us must lead NASA will
46:33
do our best to ensure the United States
46:35
maintain the global leadership with the
46:38
right technology right business
46:40
environment and entrepreneurial spirit
46:43
to succeed NASA and the US aviation
46:47
community will lead the world into a new
46:49
era
46:50
of aviation thank you again for this
46:53
opportunity to testify on this
46:55
critically important topic I look
46:57
forward to answering your questions
47:00
Thank You dr. Shen and dr. Clark
47:04
chairman Smith ranking member Johnson
47:06
members of the committee thank you for
47:08
this opportunity to comment and
47:10
potential benefits and challenges of
47:12
urban air mobility the subject vision
47:15
for UAM is that a vertical takeoff and
47:18
landing and in some cases short takeoff
47:20
and landing vehicles transporting people
47:23
directly between ever their origins and
47:26
their destinations however there's also
47:28
come equally compelling vision of veto
47:31
vehicles potentially autonomous veto
47:33
vehicles transporting packages and cargo
47:35
on non stop segments between their
47:38
origins and destinations my sense is
47:40
that UAM will involve a movement of both
47:43
people and cargo between origins and
47:45
destinations and that it's also very
47:48
likely that they will have to be a
47:51
dynamic hub-and-spoke network in a
47:53
similar way to we have airlines where
47:55
flight segments and the locations of
47:58
hubs are dynamically generated based on
48:01
the demand that you see at any given
48:03
time with this vision as a basis for
48:06
analysis it's evident to me that first
48:09
aircraft will require greater autonomy
48:12
in operations and by that I mean be able
48:15
to operate without human intervention
48:17
supervision and autonomous
48:20
decision-making ie
48:22
able to determine what to do next in a
48:24
situation that was not pre-programmed or
48:28
predetermined second the two basic
48:32
aspects of air traffic management the
48:34
air traffic control and traffic flow
48:36
management will also require greater
48:38
autonomy third the proliferation of
48:41
Verta parts will raise noise privacy and
48:45
safety concerns
48:47
fourth vertebrate and flight
48:51
trajectories must be jointly optimized
48:53
for efficiency noise privacy and safety
48:56
fifth ATM for UAM will likely be
49:01
provided by private /
49:04
municipal entities maybe public-private
49:07
partnerships that are monitored or
49:09
regulated by the FAA and sixth
49:12
legislation may be needed with respect
49:15
to certification requirements for
49:17
vehicles systems and operators the first
49:20
two issues I've raised relate to
49:22
autonomy the third and fourth issues
49:25
relate to modeling and optimization the
49:27
fifth and sixth are public policy issues
49:30
for which I am NOT an expert but I
49:32
assure many in the room are thus I will
49:35
confine the remainder of my remarks to
49:37
the research challenges and objectives
49:39
for autonomy research and for modeling
49:42
an optimization research regards to
49:45
autonomy research in 2014 NRC report
49:49
entitled autonomy research for
49:51
civilization aviation towards a new era
49:53
of flight my colleagues and I identified
49:56
eight technical barriers for regulation
50:00
and certification barriers and to legal
50:03
and social barriers to increased
50:05
autonomy we propose the following four
50:07
most urgent and most difficult research
50:10
projects develop methodologies to
50:13
characterize and bound the behavior of
50:15
adaptive non deterministic systems over
50:18
their complete lifecycle to develop the
50:21
system architectures and techniques that
50:22
would enable increase ly sophisticated
50:24
and increasingly autonomous systems and
50:26
an unmanned aircraft operate for
50:28
extended periods without real-time human
50:31
cognizance or control 3 develop the
50:34
theoretical basis and methodologies for
50:36
using modeling and simulation to
50:38
accelerate the development and
50:39
maturation of advanced increase in the
50:41
autonomous systems in aircraft and
50:43
fourth develop standards and processes
50:45
for verification validation and
50:47
certification of increased lisanna
50:49
autonomous systems and determine their
50:51
implications for design I believe that
50:54
these research projects remain relevant
50:56
to the quest for increase in the
50:58
autonomous vehicles and systems and are
51:00
just as relevant to the realization of
51:02
you am to my knowledge nASA has started
51:05
research in each of these four areas
51:07
however progress has been slow and needs
51:10
to be accelerated regards to modeling
51:13
and optimization we research helicopter
51:16
noise has been in content
51:17
is to be a concern in urban areas I have
51:20
every reason given the similarities
51:22
believe that a noise from propose you am
51:24
veto will also be a concern urban areas
51:27
separately their concerns continues to
51:29
be concerned about safety of helicopters
51:32
and other rotor craft and current
51:33
understanding of the privacy and safety
51:36
concerns of the general public is poor
51:39
with these considerations in mind I
51:42
believe that UAM will be further enabled
51:44
by investments in the following four
51:46
research projects first develop models
51:50
for source noise and failure
51:51
characteristics of a wide range of the
51:53
proposed vehicles in a wide range of
51:56
operating conditions second developed
51:58
noise and failure modeling frameworks
52:00
that can be used in the context of a
52:02
broader vehicle design tool to develop
52:04
no noise high reliability vehicles and
52:06
to aid in certification third develop
52:10
holistic analytics capabilities for UAM
52:12
fourth develop high fidelity
52:15
computationally efficient algorithms to
52:17
optimize trajectories and locations of
52:19
vehicles thank you for inviting me to
52:22
testify and for having the vision to
52:24
hold a hearing on this very important
52:26
topic I look forward to your questions
52:28
and to work with you in the future and
52:30
this topic thank you dr. Clark dr.
52:32
Allison mr. chairman ranking member
52:35
Johnson and members of the committee it
52:37
is a privilege to be here before you
52:39
today to discuss the role Luber will
52:41
play in delivering aerial ride-sharing
52:42
services in the years ahead
52:44
my name is Eric Allison I'm excited to
52:46
lead boobers elevate initiative elevate
52:49
is building our future uber air product
52:50
that aims to allow anyone to push a
52:52
button and get a flight to achieve this
52:55
we are developing a real-time on-demand
52:57
network of air vehicles to deliver time
52:59
savings to riders on a massive scale we
53:02
are creating Ebor air because we believe
53:03
aerial ride-sharing has the potential to
53:05
radically improve urban mobility every
53:08
year millions of hours are wasted in
53:09
traffic on roads worldwide in 2016 the
53:13
Texas Department of Transportation
53:14
estimated drivers in five of the state's
53:16
largest metropolitan areas lose about 52
53:19
hours a year due to congestion and here
53:21
in the United States we have one of the
53:23
world's most congested cities in Los
53:24
Angeles this is why we have announced
53:27
dallas-fort worth in Los Angeles as two
53:29
of our launch markets
53:30
for residents of these cities and for
53:32
the rest of us moments stuck on the road
53:34
represent less time with family fewer
53:37
hours growing our economies and more
53:38
money spent polluting the world as a
53:41
multimodal transportation company uber
53:42
believes solving this problem is core to
53:44
our mission of making transportation
53:46
safe reliable and affordable to everyone
53:49
everywhere just as skyscrapers allowed
53:52
cities to use limited land more
53:54
efficiently urban air transportation
53:55
will use all three dimensions to
53:57
alleviate transportation congestion on
53:59
the ground we started this journey two
54:02
years ago publishing our elevate white
54:03
paper which I respectfully request be
54:06
entered into the record if that
54:09
objection the white paper would be made
54:10
a part of the record thank you we wanted
54:13
to understand why people don't fly in
54:15
cities today and what barriers must be
54:17
overcome to make this possible in
54:19
addressing these questions we identified
54:21
an approach to systematically tackle
54:23
each of the challenges and in fact our
54:25
analysis not only projects aerial
54:27
ride-sharing as feasible but also leads
54:29
us to chart a path to launch at
54:30
affordable prices once economies of
54:33
scale are achieved we could operate at
54:34
rates cheaper than owning and driving
54:36
your own car to achieve this vision we
54:39
aim to begin testing vehicles in Texas
54:41
in California by 2020 and commence
54:43
certified commercial operations in 2023
54:45
during our trial phase we intend to
54:48
prove the high safety constant
54:50
reliability and low noise aspects of our
54:52
service so we may expand passenger
54:53
operations once we begin deploying
54:55
certified aircraft in both markets our
54:58
service holds the promise of reducing
54:59
congestion and improving quality of life
55:01
ultimately no one company can do this
55:04
alone broad-based partnerships with
55:07
government and industry are critical to
55:08
achieve this vision one of our partners
55:11
belt is a leading rotor craft
55:13
manufacturer and is well-positioned to
55:14
pave the way for safe reliable and
55:16
affordable uber air taxis together with
55:19
our other vehicle partners Boeing's
55:20
Aurora Embraer Pipistrel and kerim
55:23
aircraft we are actively designing new
55:25
aircraft to lead a revolution in urban
55:27
aviation and cities around the globe
55:28
we're proud to be collaborating with
55:31
these job creators to chart the future
55:32
the National Aeronautics and Space
55:34
Administration is another important
55:36
partner we've signed to Space Act
55:38
agreements with NASA one for the
55:39
development of new UTM concepts and
55:41
another to explore technologies for
55:43
urban air mobility
55:44
as part of these agreements we've
55:45
completed a study on ways our aircraft
55:47
will safely separate from commercial
55:49
airliners in dallas-fort Worth Airport
55:50
and conducted simulations paving the way
55:52
for long-term air traffic management
55:54
solutions additional studies to unlock
55:56
urban air transportation are ongoing we
55:59
ask Congress to encourage NASA to
56:01
continue investing in this ecosystem and
56:03
we look forward to extending our
56:04
collaborations with NASA and other
56:06
governmental partners to work on
56:07
aircraft innovation noise limitations
56:09
and autonomous flight as a member of the
56:12
NASA Advisory Council Aeronautics
56:13
Committee I'm confident our joint
56:15
research efforts can and will help open
56:17
this market and ask each of you to
56:18
encourage and support NASA to continue
56:21
investing in this exciting new industry
56:22
at uber we're investing in aerial
56:25
ride-sharing because it has the
56:26
potential to deliver time savings at
56:28
affordable prices to consumers around
56:29
the world we see exceptional demand
56:32
across all large markets for safe
56:34
reliable fast transportation services
56:36
and our network can be an excellent
56:37
supplement to public and private transit
56:39
options across each of them the
56:42
converging forces of improving battery
56:43
technology massive utilization through
56:45
rideshare and the advent of reliable
56:47
autonomous aviation will be a true game
56:49
changer in how people move around cities
56:51
across the world working with visionary
56:53
leaders like those at this table we will
56:55
bring about lasting positive change to
56:57
give you a sense of how users will live
57:00
this future transportation experience I
57:02
would like to close with a short video
57:03
illustrating uber air I hope you enjoyed
57:06
this projection of the future and look
57:07
forward to answering your questions
57:08
about our vision and our approach thank
57:10
you please play the video okay so in
57:15
this video you see the the integration
57:18
of our service with the app and the the
57:21
rider requests the ride and then is
57:23
directed to a sky port where they're
57:25
able to board an aircraft all on-demand
57:27
and to be taken to their destiny
57:37
flying above traffic and then the
57:43
vehicle goes away to take the next ride
57:48
thank you very much closer than you
57:51
think
57:51
thank you dr. Allison mr. Thacker
57:55
chairman Smith ranking member Johnson
57:58
members of the committee thank you for
58:00
inviting me to testify this morning on
58:02
the subject of urban air mobility my
58:04
name is Michael Thacker and I am
58:05
executive vice president of technology
58:07
and innovation at Bell made up of 7,200
58:10
employees Bellis based in Fort Worth
58:12
Texas my written testimony has been
58:14
submitted for the record but I
58:16
appreciate the opportunity to highlight
58:18
a few key elements for the consideration
58:19
of the committee to help set the stage I
58:22
would also like to start by sharing a
58:23
video my name is Michael Thacker and I'm
58:27
executive vice president of technology
58:29
and innovation at Bal speaking on air
58:31
taxi and urban mobility challenges the
58:34
idea of the flying car has become
58:35
shorthand for a just out of reach future
58:37
however new technology advancements
58:40
promise to make this long-standing dream
58:42
a reality
58:43
urban transportation in the vertical
58:45
dimension is closer than many people
58:46
realize we envision a fleet of on-demand
58:49
autonomous quiet vertical takeoff and
58:52
landing aircraft whisking passengers
58:54
over traffic and across urban landscapes
58:56
at bell innovation is in our DNA from
58:59
the first American jet fighter to the
59:00
first tiltrotor today we are carrying
59:04
that legacy forward as we create new
59:05
opportunities in urban air
59:07
transportation there's a lot of work to
59:09
be done but we believe the future is
59:11
real and coming soon to a neighborhood
59:13
near you at Bell we have a legacy of
59:18
leading innovation in aviation as I
59:21
mentioned from the first American jet
59:22
fighter to the first tiltrotor today we
59:24
are carrying that forward by creating
59:26
new opportunities in urban air
59:27
transportation with electric and hybrid
59:29
vertical takeoff and landing aircraft
59:31
much work remains to be done
59:34
by Bell and our partners and government
59:36
agencies to operationalize on-demand
59:38
mobility in the vertical dimension and
59:40
bring the benefits of aviation to our
59:42
communities in a way that is safe quiet
59:44
convenient and affordable work is
59:47
progressing on many fronts with
59:49
partners including private entities like
59:51
uber and public agencies like the FAA
59:54
and NASA at Bell we are using for
59:57
integrated frameworks to help define the
60:00
urban air mobility model operational
60:02
regulatory manufacturing and technology
60:05
the operational framework allows us to
60:09
define the necessary requirements for
60:10
urban on demand mobility
60:12
these include operational infrastructure
60:14
safety and acoustic considerations and
60:17
the critical need for a solution that is
60:18
affordable for most people the
60:21
operational framework also includes
60:22
local community engagement bells top
60:25
priority within the regulatory framework
60:27
is working with the FAA and other
60:30
regulatory stakeholders to establish an
60:32
integrated approach across vehicle
60:34
operational and air traffic requirements
60:36
we firmly believe that current aviation
60:39
safety expectations should be met and
60:41
even exceeded but new vehicles and
60:43
operational models may mitigate risk in
60:45
new ways the recent modification to the
60:48
certification requirements for small
60:50
aircraft known as part 23 amendment 64
60:53
and its performance-based approach
60:55
provides a reasonable starting point for
60:57
certifying these new aircraft we would
60:59
like to see a similar performance-based
61:01
approach to the integrated safety system
61:03
requirements for the vehicle operations
61:05
and airspace together a holistic
61:08
regulatory approach will help provide a
61:09
clear path to compliance and permission
61:12
to operate for urban mobility concepts
61:14
the manufacturing framework is
61:16
developing fabrication and assembly
61:18
processes and technologies critical for
61:21
success of urban mobility quality and
61:23
safety our baseline expectations so the
61:26
primary efforts here focus on cost
61:28
weight and environmental impact the
61:31
technology framework is informed by the
61:33
needs created in the other three Bell
61:36
and our partners are developing
61:37
technologies such as electric and hybrid
61:39
electric distributed propulsion
61:41
augmented and autonomous flight controls
61:43
and secure remote monitoring and fleet
61:46
management solutions to form the basis
61:48
for a new breed of aircraft and the
61:50
backbone of urban mobility operations
61:52
taken together these frameworks will
61:55
inform the continued development of Bell
61:57
on-demand air mobility concepts well we
62:00
are not ready to share our program
62:01
timelines we believe viable
62:03
commercial operations are possible in
62:05
the mid-2020s the traffic congestion
62:07
challenges facing our population centers
62:10
aren't going away and are not likely to
62:12
be solved through conventional means we
62:15
must approach tomorrow's challenges with
62:17
innovative thinking that not only helps
62:19
manage known issues like traffic but
62:21
also creates new opportunities for
62:23
technological advancement for new career
62:25
fields for noise and pollution reduction
62:27
and for an increased quality of life for
62:29
our citizens there is still a lot of
62:32
work to be done to create viable flight
62:34
based urban air mobility network but we
62:36
believe that future is real and coming
62:38
soon to a neighborhood near you we look
62:41
forward to working with you to bring it
62:43
to life thank you again for the
62:45
opportunity to testify and I look
62:46
forward to answering your questions
62:47
Thank You mr. Thacker and means dig
62:50
drinking Thank You chairman Smith
62:53
ranking member Johnson and members of
62:55
the committee I appreciate the
62:56
opportunity to be here this morning to
62:57
talk to you about something that I've
62:59
been working on for well over the last
63:01
decade my name is Anna Moran check
63:03
Dietrich and I'm one of the original
63:04
founders of Terrafugia I currently lead
63:06
our company's regulatory and policy
63:08
efforts next slide please
63:10
Terrafugia was founded in 2006 to help
63:14
address the 160 billion transportation
63:16
challenge that we face in this country
63:18
today we're employing over 150 people
63:20
across three locations in the US and are
63:23
getting ready to bring our first general
63:25
aviation product the transition which
63:27
you see on the screen to market next
63:28
year following transition which was as
63:31
mentioned it takes off and lands from
63:33
airports and is street legal to drive
63:35
home and park in your garage we are
63:36
pursuing an Eevee tail concept which
63:38
we're currently calling tf2 next slide
63:40
please you can see some information
63:42
about it here but I think a video is
63:45
worth more than a thousand words if you
63:46
could please go ahead with that so the
63:50
idea behind tf2 is that is a three-part
63:53
system fully integrates ground and air
63:55
transportation so you were picked up by
63:57
the ground vehicle with a passenger pod
63:59
at your desk at your origin drives you
64:02
to avert a port where you're connected
64:04
to an electric electrical vertical
64:06
takeoff and landing air vehicle which
64:08
then flies you across traffic to your
64:11
final destination unlike some of the
64:13
other and turns into this space a tf2
64:15
has a little
64:16
of a longer range we are using a hybrid
64:18
electric power system for flight and
64:20
that gives us a range of around 200
64:22
miles which allows not only urban
64:24
operations but could bring in people
64:26
from surrounding rural areas for
64:28
hospital visits things like that as well
64:30
and then once you are on the ground
64:32
another ground vehicle picks you up and
64:34
takes you to your final destination
64:36
we're anticipating around $30 for
64:39
10-minute flight and that should take
64:40
about 20 minutes over traffic so should
64:42
be an accessible form of transportation
64:44
next slide please
64:46
so there's three pieces of the
64:49
regulatory landscape that I see as being
64:52
necessary to support this new technology
64:54
Ms Johnson mentioned several of these in
64:56
her opening remarks they're air within a
64:59
certification operations and operators
65:01
and air traffic control the airway the
65:03
new certification is the most mature of
65:05
all of these areas as was mentioned the
65:08
part 23 rewrite which was completed last
65:11
year is a key piece of that having
65:13
safety in tent regulations really do
65:15
allow additional innovation to be
65:17
brought into general aviation so that is
65:19
where we anticipate certifying these
65:20
aircraft is in part 23 amendment 64 you
65:23
can see the comparison to part 27 which
65:25
is rotorcraft and significantly more
65:28
appealing to go into part 23 from the
65:30
operations and operators perspective
65:32
that's where we start talking about
65:33
bringing autonomy into the equation so
65:35
there's things everything from how do we
65:38
appropriately train pilots to
65:41
accommodate for new technologies in the
65:42
cockpit through how do we ultimately
65:44
certify an aircraft to be safe to be
65:46
flown without a human directing it so
65:49
that's a whole spectrum of efforts that
65:52
are currently ongoing from both the
65:53
operational and aircraft certification
65:55
and training perspectives air traffic
65:58
control I see it very important as very
66:00
important that we consider our airspace
66:02
as a unified airspace so it's very
66:04
tempting to try to segregate both along
66:06
the lines of existing airspace sort of
66:09
designations but as well in terms of
66:11
industries and as like as you can see in
66:13
the graphic there it really is it's a
66:15
transportation ecosystem it's a network
66:17
everything from small unmanned drones
66:19
that might be delivering your packages
66:21
all the way through commercial airliners
66:23
there's a lot of different uses for the
66:25
sky and they all need to be come
66:27
into a constructive a constructive
66:32
single system so as we look forward to
66:35
systems for that I think there's a few
66:37
pieces that we need to keep in mind one
66:40
is that we need to be thinking about
66:43
incorporating new technologies into how
66:45
we control air space using
66:47
vehicle-to-vehicle communications
66:49
potentially getting away from voice
66:50
communications and really looking at it
66:52
as a single system next slide please
66:56
so there's also some challenges
66:58
associated with bringing any new
67:00
technology to market and creating a new
67:02
industry these are just a few of them
67:05
have touched on them in more detail in
67:06
the written testimony but before that
67:08
I'll highlight our connectivity
67:09
infrastructure access technology
67:11
development and affordability by
67:14
connectivity I mean some of what I was
67:15
mentioning before both
67:16
vehicle-to-vehicle communications and
67:18
vehicle to your traffic control or other
67:20
ground-based systems this includes
67:22
continued access GPS capabilities 5g
67:25
cell data service and appropriate
67:26
frequency van band allocations for
67:28
transportation infrastructure access
67:30
spans local state and federal levels
67:33
technology development in many ways we
67:36
are already well on our way towards the
67:39
technology that we need to accomplish
67:40
these missions in these vehicles but
67:43
additional research will set the stage
67:45
for future applications and then
67:47
affordability is really primarily within
67:49
the realm of the manufacturers but it is
67:51
of course influenced by how streamlined
67:54
the certification and operations
67:55
processes can be last slide please so
67:58
with that thank you very much for the
68:00
opportunity I look forward to answering
68:02
your questions that continue into the
68:04
discussion past this morning Thank You
68:06
mr. dick let me recognize myself for
68:08
five minutes for questions and let me
68:10
ask you if you could possibly keep your
68:12
answers to one minute I've got lots of
68:14
questions and would like to get through
68:15
as many as possible dr. Allison first
68:18
one for you what are the advantages of
68:19
UAM networks over self-driving cars or
68:24
helicopters Thank You congressman for
68:27
the question the we see the advantages
68:31
of this type of aerial ride-sharing as
68:33
the ability to have both higher speed
68:38
point-to-point but also higher high
68:40
our certainties so once you take off the
68:42
the likelihood or the the the prediction
68:45
of what time you're going to land is
68:47
quite accurate versus the ground
68:49
transportation we have much more
68:51
congestion and so you have both higher
68:52
speed and lower variance which adds a
68:55
new capability into the transportation
68:58
network and these types of vehicles
68:59
additionally will be quieter safer and
69:02
much cheaper to operate than traditional
69:04
helicopters which will make it much more
69:06
accessible as a transportation system
69:08
okay thank you dr. Allison miss Dietrich
69:11
the transition will be the first flying
69:14
car available for public purchase how
69:16
confident are you that they're going to
69:18
be available to be bought next year well
69:20
I'm much more confident that the
69:21
transition will be available for
69:23
purchase in 2019 then I would have been
69:24
several years ago giving you an estimate
69:27
we are currently tooling up for
69:28
production we do have customers in line
69:30
for for delivery and as of today things
69:34
are on track for them and what do they
69:35
cost and are you taking orders we we are
69:38
taking orders i we have a team at
69:40
Oshkosh this morning this week actually
69:42
for that and we anticipate if you're
69:45
going to do private ownership model
69:47
it'll be a typical aircraft pricing so
69:49
what is that four hundred thousand
69:51
dollars in that ballpark your planes are
69:53
expensive we are looking at other
69:55
options for being able to use the
69:58
vehicle on more of a shared use basis
70:01
and in five to ten years you hope to
70:03
have some kind of a public
70:04
transportation taxi service is that
70:05
right the tf2 timeframe is five to ten
70:08
years that's correct that's the video
70:09
that we saw this dr. Allison wants to
70:11
know won't you be competing with uber
70:13
well I think there's a very very broad
70:16
market space and I think whoever is
70:18
focused on operate in inside city
70:20
centers and the tf2 gives you an
70:22
opportunity to bring people into that
70:23
city center from surrounding areas so I
70:25
see it as a very complimentary service
70:27
actually Wow you're a politician
70:30
dr. shin on the urban air mobility nASA
70:35
has announced a grand challenge what
70:38
does that consist of what are the
70:39
details yes I think for the question we
70:42
envision that private industry
70:45
investment in the the pace of Technology
70:48
advancement is just amazing and great so
70:52
we are trying to find exactly what
70:54
government should be doing to enable
70:57
that private investment in progress so
71:00
we would like to provide a forum where
71:03
industry partners can come in check
71:07
their ability and capabilities so we
71:10
government will provide a certain level
71:12
of requirements in particularly in
71:15
safety area in noise area and areas like
71:19
that at the system level when will that
71:21
be announced when are you going to we
71:23
are formulating what sort of exact
71:27
recurrent challenge should be as we are
71:29
speaking my team has been working on
71:32
there for months and we are hoping to
71:34
announce the intent by only next year so
71:37
that industry partners can prepare and
71:40
then toward the end of next calendar
71:43
year we are hoping to announce great
71:45
challenge okay that'll be a good
71:46
incentive mr. Thakur I know you have a
71:49
partnership with uber to design vertical
71:51
takeoff or landing vehicles my question
71:54
for you and obviously Belle has changed
71:56
its name from Bell Helicopter to just
71:58
Bell that may be part of the answer but
71:59
do you think the days of the helicopters
72:02
are limited or there are there still
72:04
advantages to helicopters so the days of
72:08
the helicopter are not limited but we do
72:11
see the world changing and Bell is much
72:13
more than helicopters we already are
72:15
more than helicopters with tiltrotor
72:17
with the v-22 and the V 280 for the Army
72:20
and Marines future vertical lift needs
72:22
but beyond this this this move in
72:25
technology and convergence of electric
72:28
hybrid and and distributed propulsion
72:31
allows a new breed of vertical takeoff
72:33
and landing vehicles ones for markets
72:35
like the uber Network but also for
72:37
carrying cargo and logistics as dr.
72:41
Clark mentioned we see that as a
72:43
tremendous opportunity for
72:44
business and one that as a legacy leader
72:47
and vertical lift we should be leading
72:49
as well and so thus the change from Bell
72:52
Helicopter to Bell however from a heavy
72:55
standpoint from things that require
72:57
large amounts of lift there will be
73:00
hydrocarbon burning helicopters around
73:02
for a good long time and perhaps long
73:04
distances as well absolutely okay
73:06
Thank You mr. Thacker dr. Clark what
73:08
kind of public-private partnerships can
73:11
we expect in coming years I think um you
73:16
know it's not realistic to expect the
73:18
FAA to be expanded to actually dealing
73:20
with air traffic control in urban
73:22
environments so I do believe
73:24
municipalities will be involved for
73:27
liability reasons and I think there are
73:28
lots of companies out there working on
73:30
ideas for your traffic management and
73:32
the NASA UTM program has been very
73:34
instrumental in furthering on how to get
73:36
people to communicate and different
73:38
entities community get together so
73:40
ultimately I see a like a cable model
73:42
where some part of urban area will be
73:45
allocated a space for them to provide a
73:48
service of air traffic control obviously
73:50
the regulations have to be proper
73:51
regulations have to be put in place and
73:53
the communications and handoff from one
73:55
area to the other
73:56
will have to be worked out but I
73:57
envision a cable model in a short Center
73:59
okay thank you dr. Clark and that
74:01
concludes my questions and you don't
74:02
want me from Texas the ranking member is
74:04
recognized for hers Thank You mr.
74:06
chairman dr. Clark
74:09
you indicate in your prepared statement
74:12
that increasingly autonomous capability
74:15
will be necessary as UAM services expand
74:19
could you highlight what you believe
74:24
makes that necessary what will what kind
74:29
of attention will be given to the safety
74:31
risk what role should research play and
74:35
mitigating such risk and who should do
74:39
this research
74:41
I'll start with the last one I
74:43
personally believe NASA is the in the
74:45
right position to do that research so
74:49
I'm going back into the start of your
74:50
question let's start with the commercial
74:53
side the uber side of things economies
74:56
of scale dictate that you'd like to
74:58
move first the one operator and then no
75:00
operator of a vehicle and and if you go
75:04
to one Operator the requirements to
75:07
train that person to the level of a
75:09
commercial pilot are onerous and quite
75:12
expensive and you have to pay them and
75:14
we already have a forecast shortage of
75:15
pilots so that drives you there to more
75:18
autonomous vehicles so that you don't
75:20
have to have somebody with a commercial
75:22
pilot less than 1500 hours operating a
75:24
vehicle so you have to then trade that
75:26
off with some more autonomy to
75:28
complement their skill sets and then
75:30
when you go to no operator or at least
75:33
nobody in the vehicle operating the
75:35
vehicle and remote supervision you have
75:37
things like loss of communication we
75:39
become issues so the vehicles themselves
75:40
have to be able to operate without a
75:42
linkage to somebody on the ground so
75:45
both of those things moving to a single
75:47
pilot moving to pilots with less
75:49
training than our current commercial
75:51
pilots and going towards completely the
75:53
autonomous system
75:55
I mean systems that have linkages with
75:57
the ground which can be lost and drive
76:00
you towards autonomy and the research
76:03
needs to be done to figure out how to
76:05
get the big thing is how do we get
76:08
vehicles that when faced with a
76:10
situation don't just say does not
76:12
compute and shut down right we want
76:15
vehicles that when faced with a
76:17
situation are acting more like humans
76:20
which basically try to figure out what
76:22
the issues are try to figure out where
76:24
the constraints need to be relaxed and
76:26
what needs to be done to at least get
76:27
them to a safe point a safe mode which
76:29
we have done for many years on the space
76:31
side where when things happened there's
76:33
always a safe mode to refer to so that's
76:36
in summary is where I think thank you
76:38
very much dr. Ellison in dr. Clark's
76:42
prepared statement indicate their
76:44
potential UAM service users are likely
76:48
to prefer the verda port location is
76:52
convenient to their homes and where
76:54
they're headed
76:57
how should that convenience of the UAM
77:00
users be balanced with community
77:03
concerns and choosing Hubbard important
77:07
locations
77:09
Thank You Mikey member for your question
77:12
this is a very important concern it's
77:15
something that we've spent a lot of time
77:16
looking into one of our strengths at
77:18
uber is that we do a lot of analysis
77:20
simulation and understanding of
77:22
transportation networks and so we've
77:24
made as a core of elevate and ability to
77:26
to analyze to infuse together different
77:30
types of data for different communities
77:32
that we're looking at in terms of
77:34
restrictions and noise sensitivities and
77:36
things like that to actually determine
77:38
where optimal places based on demand as
77:40
well as community considerations are to
77:42
place the the verda ports as we develop
77:45
our network and so we we want to do this
77:47
in partnership with the local
77:48
communities which is why we've had a
77:49
very strong engagement with both
77:51
dallas-fort Worth and Los Angeles to
77:54
actually determine the right way to do
77:56
this and to do it in a way that works
77:58
hand in hand with local communities to
78:00
to build a service and a network that
78:02
everyone is very happy with they don't
78:05
have FAA's experience with community
78:07
resistance to the concentration of
78:11
flight tracks and all of the application
78:14
of NextGen's of tracks and performance
78:18
based navigation techniques it appears
78:21
and I don't know what it's gonna cost I
78:23
don't know if you know yet but it does
78:26
appear that the people who might be able
78:30
to use it also the ones that do the most
78:34
complaining about air traffic noise and
78:38
so how do you plan to mitigate that so
78:43
we we have as our basis for what we're
78:46
doing kind of a deep view that the
78:49
community engagement is is very
78:51
important from the very beginning and
78:52
and so part of our desire to to roll
78:56
this out in a in a systematic way is to
78:59
start in places where there is the the
79:01
right level engagement and the right
79:02
level of support in the community and to
79:04
demonstrate the low noise capabilities
79:06
and the integration into the the local
79:09
transit system in a way that
79:10
demonstrates the utility and the the
79:13
overall value proposition of this type
79:15
of transportation to the wider community
79:17
and so that's the approach that we're
79:19
taking as we as we
79:21
this out thank you very much my times
79:23
expand Thank You mr. Johnson the
79:25
gentleman from Oklahoma mr. Lucas you
79:26
recognized for questions Thank You mr.
79:28
chairman I represent and I guess I
79:30
should direct my question to dr. Allison
79:32
that mr. Thacker and mrs. Detrick I
79:35
represent a part of the country that
79:36
benefited greatly from the establishment
79:38
of the u.s. highway system and when
79:40
you're in Oklahoma course you're on the
79:42
old historic route 66 the Commerce Road
79:46
from Chicago to Los Angeles and it
79:48
dramatically expanded the availability
79:50
of services the the nature of the
79:53
economy in rural America so let's talk
79:56
for a moment about and I know our
79:57
initial focus is on the urban areas
79:59
let's talk about how long you would
80:01
expect the benefits of urban air
80:03
mobility to work from the urban zone out
80:06
into the to the suburbs the rural areas
80:09
so to speak please and then let my
80:15
colleagues join in honestly we see the
80:17
timeline for some of the applications
80:20
being very similar at Bell we're
80:22
developing all-electric solutions for
80:25
applications like the uber network but
80:27
we're developing hybrid electric
80:29
solutions with modular propulsion to
80:32
extend the range so the ability to
80:34
deliver goods and services provide
80:35
emergency medical capabilities things
80:37
that general aviation already provides
80:39
to rural communities with these vehicles
80:41
and with this system it should be
80:44
available in a similar timeframe in
80:46
reality it may be available to some
80:48
degree sooner because from an
80:50
operational standpoint we will begin
80:52
operating over lightly populated areas
80:54
before we operate over heavily populated
80:56
urban areas I would second what mr.
81:01
Thakur said I think that there is a real
81:02
possibility to bring more rural areas
81:06
more into some of the advantages that
81:08
you have in the urban areas getting
81:10
access to hospitals more expedited cargo
81:12
delivery things like that I think this
81:13
industry has the ability to serve those
81:15
areas very well and I agree with the
81:17
timing and I agree with that hybrid
81:19
propulsion solutions that provide a
81:21
longer range you know tf2 has a range of
81:23
around 200 miles those sorts of
81:25
solutions will bring access to those
81:27
communities probably on the same
81:29
timeframe as the oil electric versions
81:30
to city centers
81:34
yeah yeah our network our work is
81:36
certainly focused on higher density
81:38
areas because a lot of the ability to
81:40
drive utilization and load factor into
81:42
vehicles is one of the ways we're able
81:44
to drive costs down induced in our
81:46
predictions on a cost per passenger mile
81:48
so so certainly as we extend to less
81:50
densely populated areas
81:52
we'll have to revisit some of those
81:54
assumptions and look at the way the the
81:56
network flows are modeled in as the the
81:59
density decreases this question I
82:02
addressed to the whole panel when I go
82:03
back once again to route 66 when that
82:05
was initially laid down the average
82:06
automobile that would have puttered down
82:08
the road in Oklahoma would have been a
82:10
Ford Model T very simple four-cylinder
82:13
minimal mufflers no emission control
82:14
essentially whatsoever but a very
82:17
effective mass-produced automobile that
82:20
the country for that matter the world
82:22
adopted and it led to an explosion and
82:24
huge advancements in automobile
82:27
technology assuming that this is a
82:30
similar path moved forward a century
82:34
with the initial excess success and the
82:38
mass adoption because we all tend to
82:40
move as a group in this great country
82:41
when it comes to new technology it seems
82:43
let's go back once more to that issue
82:46
about how we manage air traffic if we
82:49
suddenly go from the Model T's of the
82:51
1920s to to the automobiles of the 30s
82:54
40s 50s we'll have a dramatic explosion
82:58
in utilization the air space I live in a
83:00
part of western Oklahoma where while it
83:03
seems very very very thinly populated we
83:06
were under a military air reservation
83:08
we have training flights primary pilots
83:11
the transport air force cargo planes
83:14
that train all the time we've got the
83:16
east-west traffic the commercial stuff
83:17
at the higher elevations which I realize
83:19
is above where we're talking about going
83:20
but let's discuss for just a moment the
83:23
public private sector relationship how
83:25
we think little advance can we keep up
83:28
when it comes to managing that air
83:30
traffic flow if there is an explosion
83:32
utilization whoever I thank you for
83:38
bringing up the history of the
83:39
automobile and bringing that industry
83:41
online because when first those Model
83:44
T's were rolled out we didn't have the
83:46
transportation infrastructure on the
83:48
ground that we do today either we didn't
83:49
have stoplights every corner we didn't
83:51
have you know the rules are there my
83:53
great-grandfather would said it's a
83:54
silly fire at the time exactly so we
83:57
have a history of being able to kind of
83:59
evolve very quickly in these ways and I
84:01
think we will see something similar with
84:03
these vehicles and I think we can do a
84:05
lot today and laying the groundwork and
84:07
preparing ourselves for them but I think
84:08
we also do have to stay a bit nimble on
84:10
our feet and be prepared to adapt as we
84:13
see where this industry truly goes and
84:14
where the demand really surfaces so I
84:17
think we can and the work that's being
84:19
done here is definitely in line with
84:20
preparing us for that but I think at the
84:22
same time we need to be willing to
84:24
accept the fact that we don't exactly
84:26
know how this is going to play out and
84:28
that there will be things that arise
84:29
that we haven't been able to forcing
84:31
foresee and that we should be able to
84:33
adapt as we go and have confidence in
84:35
our ability to do so thank you my time
84:39
is expired mr. chairman Thank You mr.
84:41
Lucas the gentleman from Virginia mr.
84:43
Baier is recognized now I know the
84:46
gentleman has a certain interest in car
84:48
dealerships when is he going to start
84:49
selling flying cars yeah I just came to
84:52
see if I could get a franchise today mr.
84:53
chair home doctor Allison this is
84:58
relevant for everyone but dr. Allison
84:59
picking on you I and I live in Northern
85:01
Virginia which has the longest commute
85:03
times in the country the second worst
85:06
congestion you come in I 66 I 95 I 395
85:10
the GW Parkway in the morning and it's
85:12
just bumper-to-bumper sometimes all day
85:15
long so I keep trying to imagine and
85:18
often when I'm in traffic I imagine
85:20
moving to the third dimension but I'm
85:23
trying to figure out how many cars you
85:24
really need to remove from a congested
85:27
i-95 to get it to actually flow and when
85:30
you look at the size of the vehicles
85:32
that we've seen in the videos which are
85:35
gonna require more front space rear
85:38
space left right and above and below
85:40
just because they're airplanes
85:43
rather than cars it'd be fascinating to
85:47
see the video that shows how you've
85:50
taken say 20% 25% of the cars off and
85:53
how the incredibly congested the air
85:56
space goes above especially if you
85:58
assume and I do
86:00
that the communities are going to insist
86:02
that the lanes are defined for the for
86:07
these vehicles - that you're not just
86:08
flying over neighborhoods that as right
86:11
now the helicopters are supposed to fly
86:13
along the existing corridors yeah I can
86:18
see why you need autonomous - because if
86:20
you start putting all these people up in
86:21
the air that are texting while they're
86:23
flying their plane you can see becoming
86:25
incredibly difficult so Thank You
86:29
congressman for the question so the the
86:32
vision that we have is that this will
86:35
this will happen progressively over time
86:37
so it won't start with with you know
86:39
many many many aircraft flying around
86:42
we'll start with a few and we'll build
86:43
up the systems as we learn as Anna was
86:45
saying actually the however if you if
86:49
you think about the the third dimension
86:50
and the space available to sequence and
86:53
structure and we've done lots of
86:54
simulations of this as well
86:57
vehicles flying between different points
87:00
in a point-to-point type of a network at
87:03
a couple thousand feet you don't
87:04
actually get to the same type of
87:07
congestion that you see on the ground
87:09
because there's just a lot more space
87:11
and you can space things out and and one
87:13
of the features of the types of vehicles
87:16
that we're all talking about here these
87:19
vertical takeoff and landing electric
87:21
vehicles that convert from from rotor
87:23
born flight in the verdict in the
87:25
takeoff and landing phase to winged born
87:27
flight in the in the in the
87:29
cross-country phase is that they get
87:31
dramatically quieter and more efficient
87:33
as they're flying across so when they're
87:35
up at cruise altitude and flying along
87:37
they're very you basically don't hear
87:39
them they're not the same as a
87:40
helicopter where they make a significant
87:42
amount of noise through the whole the
87:44
whole segment of the flight that they're
87:46
on so those different features the the
87:48
fact that there's a lot of space in
87:50
order to space things out the fact that
87:51
they're pretty quiet and they go a lot
87:53
faster than cars - so we're talking
87:54
hundred fifty to two hundred miles an
87:56
hour in terms of the the cruise speed
87:58
allows the the airspace to soak up a lot
88:01
more traffic than okay then you'd expect
88:04
on the way ground networks which are
88:06
basically kind of quasi 1d networks
88:08
clogged up with cars thank you very much
88:11
dr. Clark picking up on what dr.
88:13
Allisyn just said in your testimony you
88:15
talked about the similarities between
88:17
helicopters and urban air mobility and
88:19
that a likely side effect of urban air
88:21
mobility through the constant drone of
88:23
aircraft noise I don't need to tell you
88:25
that the number one concern in my
88:27
district is aircraft noise followed
88:28
closely by a helicopter noise how do we
88:32
assure those folks that you know our
88:35
research in the UAM is really focusing
88:37
on the noise piece - well that's part of
88:39
the reason why I suggested in my
88:40
testimony that there needs to be
88:43
research and a tool and this hasn't not
88:46
going to be just one company or one
88:48
manufacturer it has to be a government
88:50
or a community broad community accepted
88:54
and verified tool for optimizing the
88:57
trajectories to make sure that the noise
88:59
levels above the ambient I mean in the
89:01
end people worry about what's above the
89:03
enemy I mean it ambient I mean you look
89:05
back to the Grand Canyon you know people
89:07
said oh the airplane is quiet the
89:09
helicopter is quiet but if it's above 35
89:11
DB or 40 DB in the afternoons people
89:14
complain and that's very quiet but
89:16
people have gone to the Grand Canyon for
89:18
that natural quiet and so it you always
89:20
have to match the noise level with the
89:23
ambient and and we have to we can do it
89:26
but it will require a lot of
89:27
optimization of where the vertebrates
89:30
are what routes they fly in and I would
89:32
add privacy to one of those things
89:33
because we actually don't know how
89:35
people are going to react to vehicles
89:37
being that close to their houses and we
89:40
have to do some studies to actually
89:41
figure it out and in fact we don't know
89:43
how people are going to respond to
89:44
vehicles flying you know at 400 feet or
89:47
a thousand feet on a long distance at
89:50
that constant altitude
89:51
okay we're accustomed to vehicles
89:52
basically taking off on going to much
89:54
higher altitude so there's work to be
89:56
done to understand people's responses
89:57
and then there's work to be done to
89:59
model and then there's work to be done
90:00
to optimize the trajectories because
90:02
ultimately we want to enable you am I
90:04
mean I'm an airplane guy but yeah but we
90:08
but we want to do it right it is gonna
90:10
change sunbathing in the backyards there
90:11
yes I suspect it will mr. Chairman I
90:14
yield back yes your buyer the German
90:17
from Louisiana mr. Abraham
90:20
recognized I thank you mr. chairman and
90:22
I appreciate the handout he gave of the
90:24
history of the flying car going back to
90:26
1947 on the 1949 molt Taylor had an air
90:30
of cause it actually flied into your
90:31
James Bond find this is which I am if
90:35
you remember the man with the Golden Gun
90:36
have a flying car in that movie also mr.
90:40
dietrick I was there when Terrafugia
90:44
premiered the car wash cars after boats
90:47
Thursday also be flying to Oshkosh and
90:50
I'm your booth is always the most
90:52
popular there's always a large crowd so
90:55
you certainly have the attention of the
90:57
aviators over the world so I think we're
91:00
we're getting close and I'm not too much
91:02
worried about the noise level I know you
91:05
guys will have to get it right from a
91:07
business standpoint you won't survive
91:09
that's going to be driven by both
91:11
civilian population as dr. Clark
91:13
alluded to I guess my concern and it's
91:16
been brought up is transitioning from an
91:18
uncontrolled airspace where basically
91:21
you can do what you want to to and
91:23
controlled airspace and whether it's
91:25
class Delta which is in a small
91:27
community or whether it's Class B as you
91:29
guys know that are on the board there
91:31
that airspace is controlled from surface
91:33
up to 4,000 up to 10,000 in Class B so
91:37
ATC has control and even a small city
91:40
from surface own up and a day like today
91:42
where it's cloudy the ceiling is low I'm
91:45
concerned that if you have an autonomous
91:47
vehicle that you know gets lost in the
91:49
clouds it gets basically disoriented and
91:51
unfortunately you know bad things happen
91:55
miss Dietrich all I guess go to you
91:57
first I'm assuming that in the
92:00
Terrafugia transition car will a pilot's
92:04
license be required to purchase that car
92:07
well thank you for the question thank
92:08
you for the kind words yes for
92:10
transition our first product that's a
92:12
light-sport aircraft so you will need a
92:14
sport pilot license or better in order
92:16
to fly that aircraft and depending on
92:18
the qualifications of the pilot in the
92:20
aircraft you wouldn't be flying that
92:22
particular aircraft in a day like today
92:23
from instrument meteorological
92:26
conditions perspective autonomy is
92:28
actually a safety benefit in those areas
92:30
because all of the sensors that you
92:31
would use to fly an aircraft
92:33
on a sunny day are the same as the ones
92:35
you'd used to fly in a cloudy day so
92:36
autonomous capabilities can actually
92:38
increase safety in bad weather which is
92:40
one of the reasons why we're considering
92:42
incorporating them not just in these
92:44
urban air mobility vehicles but looking
92:46
at ways to bring them into broader
92:47
general aviation as well and I'll agree
92:49
with that I'll our series which has
92:50
wonderful avionics and certainly can
92:53
make me a much better pilot in
92:54
conditions like this and me find myself
92:56
so you know I can't argue were there and
92:58
we know that in yells world we're having
93:01
to convert to a DBS out about 2020 and
93:04
if you have ADSL and end in cars flying
93:07
cars and certainly airplanes can talk to
93:09
each other so that maybe alleviate some
93:11
of the burden on the air traffic control
93:14
again I worry also you know about the
93:16
the weight and balance if you get
93:17
somebody that does not know aerodynamics
93:19
and they get into an autonomous vehicle
93:21
that over overloads its weight and
93:25
balance capability then you're in a
93:27
dangerous situation and dr. Ellis I know
93:30
uber and companies like you are thinking
93:33
along those lines and I'll just let you
93:36
come in sure Thank You congressman for
93:39
your question
93:40
those are all very important
93:42
considerations and we we are certainly
93:44
going to take a crawl walk run approach
93:46
to this as we develop the networks and
93:48
and we start with demonstration flights
93:50
initially on experimental flights
93:52
basically in conjunction with our
93:54
partners in the in the partner cities
93:56
and then as we will learn from that as
93:59
we move toward the the 2023 launch of
94:02
the commercial flights that we are kind
94:03
of ambitiously projecting so the these
94:06
questions of of weight and balance those
94:09
those will all have to be figured out by
94:12
learning by actually simulating these
94:13
things and and and testing them in
94:16
practice as we roll toward that that
94:18
initial startup commercial service and
94:20
for you and mr. diederich are you
94:23
planning on building these cars under
94:25
part 23 yes sir part 23 moment 64 is a
94:29
good fit for these aircraft there's
94:32
about 80 percent of that rule that
94:33
applies directly without any need for
94:35
modification 10 percent that's just
94:36
simply not applicable like landing on
94:38
water and then there's about 10 percent
94:39
of that rule where we'll need to work
94:41
with the FAA for special conditions or
94:43
other consider
94:43
we're just wasn't originally
94:45
contemplated but by and large it's a
94:46
good fit and and the FDA has helped a
94:50
little bit with the regulation 4:23 as
94:52
far as that yes is that dr. Shane you
94:54
have any comments only neither's no I
94:57
think I support every everything the
95:01
other witnesses mentioned I think I want
95:04
to point out that this is a great
95:07
opportunity for the country that from
95:09
very high tech but low volume industry
95:13
that Aviation has been except general
95:16
aviation part we are actually looking at
95:19
the possibility of turning that aviation
95:22
industry as a whole from the still very
95:25
high tech but extremely high volume just
95:28
like automobile industry so I think
95:31
government really needs to find a way to
95:33
enable this new capability for the
95:37
countries our national economy in jobs I
95:40
agree and look I think is exciting time
95:42
and I wish all you guys the best of luck
95:45
I think the future is bright so thank
95:46
you very much mr. chairman are you back
95:48
Thank You mr. Abraham the gentleman from
95:50
California mr. McNerney is recognized I
95:53
thank the chairman for having an
95:55
interesting hearing and for passing out
95:57
party favors as well one of the things
96:03
that worries me about the subject is the
96:06
energy consumption I mean these things
96:09
are gonna be flying video is going to
96:11
take a lot more energy than a surface
96:12
vehicle can someone address the how the
96:15
differential and how much more energy
96:17
it's going to take to get somebody from
96:19
point A to point B on a on a flying
96:22
vehicle and a surface vehicle I'm happy
96:26
to jump in thank you for the question
96:28
so so actually the the amount of energy
96:31
per passenger mile and is similar to an
96:34
electric car so for an all-electric
96:36
version these vehicles because they have
96:38
to be very efficient in order to make it
96:41
work essentially
96:41
that you have to have to design the the
96:44
aerodynamics and tailor and tailor the
96:46
energy consumption for the vertical
96:47
takeoff and landing phases of this that
96:49
it's not substantially different than a
96:52
surface vehicle when it's when it's all
96:54
said and done because of the much more
96:56
in Han
96:57
aerodynamic design and tailoring that
96:58
there has to be done for these types of
97:01
air vehicles
97:02
so speaking of aerodynamics I mean how
97:05
much how fast do you have to go to get
97:08
one of these vehicles off the ground I
97:09
mean there's a speed issue here which
97:12
must yeah so the the the concept of most
97:18
of what we're talking about is to take
97:19
off a line vertically so they actually
97:21
take off at zero speed just like a
97:23
helicopter and then transition the
97:25
forward flight either the two different
97:27
means
97:27
so the different different of our
97:29
vehicle partners are approaching this
97:30
problem in different ways we have
97:31
different types of vehicle concepts that
97:34
accomplish that transition transitioning
97:36
regime differently but then once they're
97:38
at wing borne they fly like an airplane
97:40
on the wing which is much much more
97:42
efficient than than flying rotor borne
97:45
and that allows them to be lower noise
97:47
and higher performance well thank you
97:50
and again I don't know who to ask this
97:52
question of but according to a 2015 goty
97:57
craft may be particularly vulnerable to
97:59
cyber attacks and cyber issues if a
98:03
hacker is able to overcome a an
98:05
aircraft's firewall it could cause
98:08
significant damage where do we stand
98:10
with regard to security on these being
98:13
able to provide the security that we
98:15
need to make sure that there's not a
98:17
safety issue so I'll take my committee
98:21
the one I chaired co-chaired in 2014
98:23
identified security has been a major
98:26
issue I have briefed the the dendy and I
98:29
on this topic and I can't talk about
98:31
that here but I know that work is being
98:33
done very extensive in looking at this
98:35
as you rightly point out there are
98:38
vulnerabilities that need to be
98:40
addressed you know in the old days air
98:43
traffic control had a security from
98:45
obscurity in that nobody could get in
98:48
and therefore you couldn't do anything
98:50
now that you have lots of wireless
98:51
networks and IP protocols there are
98:54
opportunities and people are working
98:56
hard on this I know on this topic
99:00
yeah I agree and I think the the key
99:04
with it is an ongoing vigilance because
99:06
it isn't a static target that says we've
99:08
solved cyber and now we're ready to go
99:10
forward
99:11
it's gonna be something that we have to
99:13
continue to to adjust and adapt as we go
99:16
forward because the threats will
99:18
continue to adapt as well so I've asked
99:20
about energy I've asked about cyber what
99:22
about cost is there gonna be a
99:25
comparable cost of flying vehicle versus
99:30
a surface vehicle thank you for the
99:34
question we so what we have announced we
99:37
at the big event that we did in the in
99:39
the spring is that our initial targets
99:41
for rollout of this service we kind of
99:44
have announced a series of target price
99:46
steps that we believe we can essentially
99:49
match uber black pricing in the initial
99:52
rollout of the in the the target cities
99:54
Dallas Fort Worth in Los Angeles by
99:57
increasing utilization and and
99:59
increasing the the the the load factor
100:03
by utilizing pooling out of our ground
100:06
network we think we can get to Buber
100:08
x-type pricing which is around say a
100:10
dollar fifty per passenger mile roughly
100:13
speaking and that's that's enabled by
100:16
aggressively pooling to drive load
100:18
factor into the vehicles and get the
100:20
utilization up and ultimately we see at
100:23
scale with improved manufacturing
100:24
techniques that are more akin to the
100:27
automotive industry that we can be
100:28
competitive with the cost again on a
100:30
passenger mile basis of car ownership
100:33
which is something like forty four cents
100:35
a mile I think Triple A says right now
100:37
yeah all right mr. chairman I'll
100:39
suppress my next question and yield back
100:42
Thank You mr. McNerney the gentleman
100:45
from Texas mr. babban is recognized for
100:46
his questions yes sir Thank You mr.
100:48
chairman I appreciate that appreciate
100:50
all y'all he witnesses what a
100:52
fascinating topic and dr. Shin is the
100:58
United States maintaining its leadership
101:00
role in the growing and evolving market
101:02
for this aviation market with regard to
101:06
urban air mobility will we be first to
101:09
launch operations or might we lose out
101:11
to some other country and if so what
101:14
nation and what are the consequences of
101:16
not being first I think for the question
101:20
and I think it is fair to say and I
101:24
to believe that united states still is
101:26
leading the this new potential market
101:30
and capability from that perspective
101:33
because as I said in the oral testimony
101:36
we have the best minds and best
101:39
technologies invest entrepreneurs spirit
101:42
however I even coined I've made up in
101:47
English world called the most developed
101:50
country syndrome so we we are the most
101:53
developed country in the world and along
101:57
with that we have a lot of interest that
101:59
some some other countries may not care
102:02
that much or they will be willing to
102:05
relax some of those concerns so the name
102:09
of the game in this area in my view is
102:11
entry since entry cost is very low
102:14
compared to regular commercial airline
102:18
business most probably most developed
102:23
countries or developing countries can
102:25
actually start this industry if they are
102:29
willing to lower or relax the
102:31
constraints and issues from regulatory
102:35
perspective some safety perspective and
102:37
so on so that is that is indeed a
102:39
concern and as you all know some of the
102:43
countries are jumping ahead and allowing
102:46
even US companies go to those countries
102:48
who are those countries there are
102:51
Australia New Zealand and some of the
102:54
European countries willing to do that in
102:56
Singapore also so some of the countries
103:00
again I'm not suggesting they are
103:02
lowering the safety standard but they're
103:04
willing to okay jump ahead so that is
103:07
there is a concern but I do believe we
103:09
have to still the way to scale this up
103:13
as dr. Allison and mr. Dietrich talked
103:17
about thank you
103:19
once the UAM system is in place and
103:21
multiple options exist for people to
103:23
travel by air taxi how long will it take
103:26
before people will be able to own and
103:28
operate their own veto vehicles you may
103:32
have already touched on this a little
103:33
bit I had to leave the room
103:35
and how much more complicated will it be
103:37
to manage the do the air traffic control
103:40
management mystique yeah thank you for
103:43
the question I I think that many of us
103:46
in the space are not anticipating a
103:47
private ownership model for the vertical
103:49
takeoff and landing aircraft I think
103:51
we're seeing those as probably being
103:53
cost prohibitive for an individual owner
103:55
as well as if the system works the way
103:58
envisioned it won't be necessary you'll
104:00
be able to get the functionality without
104:02
the headache and without the upfront
104:03
expense so I do expect that these
104:06
vehicles will be really dramatically
104:10
increasing the number of aircraft that
104:12
we see in the journal aviation industry
104:13
I mean just my company alone is looking
104:15
at deliveries on the order of a few
104:17
thousand a year that's currently
104:18
basically the entire size of the GA
104:20
industry each year so I this this
104:23
industry will rapidly become more of the
104:25
norm than what we see in in legacy
104:27
aircraft today and I think we're gonna
104:29
have to be conscious of that as we think
104:31
about new constructs of both ownership
104:32
and usage of these vehicles and that
104:34
what folks typically think of as small
104:37
airplanes and general aviation today
104:38
will become a small piece of much larger
104:41
industry that brings the benefits of
104:44
transportation by small aircraft to many
104:46
more people but is not what we currently
104:47
think of okay thank you and mr. McNerney
104:50
had touched on this a little while ago
104:53
but just to be more specific
104:55
cybersecurity is a topic of serious
104:57
concern whenever we discussed
105:00
technologies especially those that are
105:01
new and nascent how will the veto
105:04
vehicles be protected from cybersecurity
105:06
attacks and who will be responsible for
105:10
that protection will it be the vehicle
105:11
manufacturer the company that runs the
105:14
operating system the FAA or someone else
105:16
and who would like to respond to that
105:19
dr. Clark sure okay I'm a faculty member
105:23
you know so precedence is that the
105:27
operators ultimately are going to be the
105:29
ones that are responsible I'll give you
105:32
a quick example every 28 days we update
105:35
the database of waypoints in the country
105:37
that goes into the flight management
105:38
system and even though the person
105:40
putting it in might actually make a
105:42
mistake if something happens is the
105:44
operated airline that's responsible
105:46
because they need to check so they
105:48
actually
105:48
have staff members checking that
105:49
database every 28 days so that's what
105:51
president would suggest ultimately it's
105:54
going to be a partnership the one thing
105:55
about aviation is that it truly has been
105:58
and will continue be a partnership
106:00
between regulators operators and
106:01
manufacturers and there like I said
106:04
there are work people doing work which I
106:06
can't talk about on the cybersecurity
106:09
issue but there but there they're going
106:12
to be it's going to be a partnership and
106:14
people are going to basically figure out
106:15
how to to do some tests of things coming
106:18
in and out communication is one thing
106:20
their company is thinking about using
106:21
in-flight entertainment systems for
106:23
doing communications of flight critical
106:26
information there are people working on
106:28
how to do that and keeping track of
106:29
whether there has been an affair yes
106:31
tampering with the with the kind of data
106:34
etc okay thank you very much and I yield
106:36
back mr. chairman Thank You mr. babban
106:37
the gentleman from Pennsylvania mr. lamb
106:39
is recognized and I have a quick
106:40
question for him did you hear you were
106:43
going to get a flying car if you
106:44
attended the hearing today I actually
106:47
came here in a flying car but it was a
106:49
little late so that was why I showed up
106:51
a little late so I guess there's more
106:53
research I just want you to know there's
106:54
only three left that you made it oh wow
107:00
okay dr. Clark or anybody can take this
107:04
but I wanted to address it first to dr.
107:06
Clark this actually seems like an
107:08
industry that could create a fair number
107:11
of jobs both in terms of the operators
107:13
themselves the engineers designers
107:15
manufacturers does anyone have a sense
107:19
of the potential impact in terms of
107:21
numbers of jobs that we could be talking
107:23
about let's say in the next decade I
107:26
can't give you specific numbers so but I
107:29
can tell you that I've been a faculty
107:31
member for 21 years this is the most
107:33
excited I've ever seen students around
107:36
aviation I mean people always excited
107:40
about space but this is the most excited
107:42
I've seen people are on aviation and you
107:44
know I think there's a great potential
107:47
for jobs I mean I have undergrad
107:49
students who are thinking about doing a
107:51
startup in fact they've been building a
107:53
wind tunnel and somebody's they are
107:55
looking for a flying vehicle which looks
107:57
like a motorcycle and they're trying to
107:59
figure out where to move that when
108:01
in fact they sent me a message I do you
108:02
know somebody we can move this wind
108:04
tunnel they're funding themselves so
108:05
there's a great excitement there's great
108:08
potential and you know tubers credit
108:10
they've basically said we're not going
108:12
to build a vehicle but we're going to
108:13
provide specifications and leave it out
108:15
there for lots of others to do that and
108:17
they you know the challenge the boring
108:19
challenge around a flying motorcycle
108:21
that's generated a great deal of
108:23
interest and so I think the potential
108:26
for jobs are tremendous I can't give you
108:28
a number cut that's not maybe the guys
108:30
here who know how many people are gonna
108:32
hire will tell you anyone I know I can
108:34
offer a little bit of information so
108:35
since Terrafugia has really entered this
108:37
space you've been hiring on average five
108:38
people a week so and we don't have plans
108:41
to slow that down so that's just one
108:42
company I would say that we're probably
108:44
talking when this industry is mature
108:46
across all of the participants between
108:49
two and three orders of magnitude larger
108:50
than the existing ga industry just to
108:52
give you a sense and what about in terms
108:56
of encouraging domestic manufacturing of
108:59
all all the equipment that we're going
109:00
to need for this and the supply chain
109:02
anyone have any thoughts on that mr.
109:04
Thacker yes so you know again you think
109:07
about the production volumes for
109:09
existing aviation general aviation in
109:11
particular on in numbers of tens if you
109:15
if you're at a hundred a year you're
109:17
having a pretty stellar year it may be
109:19
at the smaller end of light GA you get
109:21
into a few hundred a year when you're
109:23
talking about hundreds to thousands a
109:25
year of somewhat larger vehicles that
109:28
we're discussing here it's a tremendous
109:30
opportunity from a manufacturing
109:32
standpoint for our country as well
109:34
anyone else just to amplify that a
109:39
little bit from from our perspective
109:40
we've been doing a lot of demand studies
109:42
so we build these demand models we look
109:43
at trip flow I actually presented on
109:45
some of this at the event and the in the
109:46
spring for the LA region but our studies
109:50
suggest that at scale when this network
109:53
is fully developed and it's soaking up
109:54
you know possibly even double-digit
109:56
percentages of overall trip flow in a in
109:58
a region like LA that you could be
110:01
talking about not just thousands but
110:03
tens of tens of thousands of vehicles
110:04
active enough demand to support that now
110:08
it would take a lot of time to get there
110:09
obviously building out the the network
110:11
but that's an incredible number compared
110:14
to
110:14
the industry can produce right now and
110:16
and so we have to see this industry grow
110:18
significantly as mrs. Dietrich said
110:21
multiple orders of magnitude and and it
110:24
makes a lot of sense to produce these
110:26
vehicles closer to where you're
110:28
deploying them as well from a logistics
110:29
standpoint because they're generally
110:30
larger than cars and harder to ship and
110:32
things like that so so I think there's a
110:34
looking to be a lot of impetus to to
110:36
build out manufacturing capabilities
110:38
here to be able to produce the the
110:41
volumes that this service or this type
110:43
of transportation will demand dr. shin
110:45
yeah if I can add just one more point I
110:48
think it is important for all of us to
110:50
recognize that when we use urban air
110:53
mobility it truly includes from small
110:58
smallest UAS to air taxi and personal
111:02
air vehicles in commuters and all those
111:06
things that truly changing the landscape
111:09
of aviation today so as you are probing
111:14
about the jobs and and the supply chains
111:17
in order I think we need to really look
111:19
at the holistic way of park package
111:24
delivery to passenger carrying small and
111:27
large and another but question about the
111:32
rural area all these things should be
111:35
considered as this air mobility for the
111:38
time being we're using urban air
111:40
mobility but I think there opens up all
111:42
these possibilities Thank You mr.
111:45
chairman I yield the remainder of my
111:46
time Thank You mr. lamb the gentleman
111:49
from Florida mr. Webster is recognized
111:51
for his questions Thank You mr. chairman
111:55
for doing this committee in presentation
111:58
this is an awesome and very interesting
112:00
subject dr. Clark I went to Georgia Tech
112:03
we so we've sort of crossed paths and
112:09
representative Massie who was here
112:10
earlier went to MIT when you did he was
112:14
a EE but anyway we're glad you're here I
112:17
got an opportunity to speak to the
112:19
graduating class last year
112:23
in in the May graduation that was a real
112:27
thrill anyway
112:29
you mentioned in your presentation four
112:33
different
112:35
well not obstacles hurdles let's say to
112:39
cross our do you see any of those that
112:43
are insurmountable no I do not I I think
112:49
they're all doable i I will say you know
112:53
one of the things the whole issue of
112:55
autonomous operations versus decision
112:58
making is one of those that is
112:59
particularly challenging because you
113:02
know a lot of the things that people
113:03
think about autonomy Israeli autonomous
113:06
operations you know its computer code
113:08
it's been validated verified it operates
113:11
at a certain condition and when things
113:12
are unusual or in a situation it doesn't
113:16
it says I can't do any more I give up
113:18
it'd be a little scary it is a little
113:20
scary and so there is work I just like
113:23
the International Science Foundation
113:24
just announced a major program on
113:27
autonomous decision-making just this
113:29
past week where they're trying to
113:30
actually get the fundamental research
113:33
done and to basically decide how systems
113:37
should decide to operate so you know I
113:39
think the ultimate idea of our example
113:42
are of autonomous decision-making our
113:44
kids I have twins and they're 11 and
113:47
they're getting to that stage where
113:49
they're to get into the autonomous
113:50
decision-making and you always think of
113:52
yourself which you you've basically
113:54
given them you know life lessons you
113:58
teach them how to think not what the
114:01
thing but how to think and that's really
114:03
the great challenge in autonomy teaching
114:05
or building systems that actually learn
114:07
and adapt and can adapt to situations
114:10
that I have not seen before and so
114:13
that's the challenge that I think is one
114:15
of the biggest ones but there is work
114:18
being done both at NASA but like I said
114:20
a National Science Foundation just
114:21
launched a major effort investing in
114:23
this area and I don't think it's
114:25
surmountable
114:26
it shouldn't surprise you that I have
114:27
some ideas about how to solve that for a
114:29
problem so I don't think it's
114:31
insurmountable so do you see them
114:34
running on
114:36
parallel tracks and like they could be
114:38
separate solutions to each one not
114:42
necessarily waiting on the other one to
114:44
be solved right no I and that will be
114:47
the case and that has been the case were
114:49
for example in autonomous cars we have a
114:52
lot of algorithms in place that only
114:55
operate under certain conditions and
114:57
when they get close to the edge they
114:59
basically say to some human supervisor
115:01
look I can't get a solution I personally
115:05
believe that autonomy is more than just
115:06
handing it over to the human when you
115:08
can't figure it out I think you know
115:11
there's lots of opportunities for
115:12
autonomous systems to helps to humans
115:15
identify when they're getting to when
115:16
they're getting close to the edge and
115:17
basically staying away from the edge and
115:20
so there's there are opportunities in
115:22
the near term to introduce autonomy
115:23
within limited settings but gradually
115:26
increase the level until the point where
115:28
we get to a ton of the full autonomous
115:30
decision-making get any predictions on
115:32
when that point will be I mean that wind
115:34
when my usual guess is around ten years
115:39
five to ten years given the level of
115:42
effort that is not that I now seeing
115:44
started to pick up obviously that will
115:46
be I have to be a sustained effort to
115:48
keep it going but I think five to ten
115:51
years we will get to the point where
115:52
will will have autonomous
115:54
decision-making at the level that I
115:56
would feel comfortable getting I mean
115:58
I'm getting on an airplane with I was
116:01
having to worry about that you'd be
116:03
willing to get on it right yeah if I may
116:06
build on that just briefly we're taking
116:08
an approach with our designs that allow
116:10
this spectrum to happen organically so
116:12
initially we are going to have a
116:14
commercial pilot on board the aircraft
116:15
that's responsible for the flight
116:16
operations we are also going to have in
116:18
parallel with that pilot all the sensors
116:20
and autonomy routines running in the
116:22
background so we'll be able to be
116:24
collecting data on what that system is
116:26
doing and comparing it to what the pilot
116:28
is doing and they'll be able to help
116:29
each other and as we gain more and more
116:31
confidence as this progression happens
116:32
we'll be able to allocate more and more
116:35
responsibilities to the system itself
116:36
but we're not going to wait for the
116:38
magic day when all of us a new it's done
116:40
we're working on that progression in an
116:43
inorganic way for product rollout you
116:47
back thank y'all so much Thank You mr.
116:50
Webster the gentleman from South
116:51
Carolina mr. Norman is recognized for
116:53
his questions thank you all for being
116:57
here it is fascinating it really is you
117:00
know and in what you're doing you're
117:02
gonna be facing I guess dealing with a
117:03
lot of regulatory agencies both on a
117:07
federal level state level on a local
117:10
level how do you navigate that and this
117:12
is really for anybody Oh what and what
117:16
pattern when do you start the process
117:19
because it looks like it's gonna be a
117:21
there would be a challenge so I'm sure
117:25
multiple people have comments but I
117:26
think the the key is you start early you
117:29
start now we've already started I think
117:33
from a vehicle and operation standpoint
117:35
it's really important to get the whole
117:37
FAA involved in to get a consistent
117:40
outcome we saw that with with drone as
117:44
well when eventually the FAA
117:46
basically put in place a structure that
117:48
it was able to pull across all of the
117:51
vehicle the flight standards operations
117:53
side and air traffic to help move that
117:55
forward we need to do that at the outset
117:57
here to make sure that we have
117:59
consistent regulation across those and
118:01
we don't overburden any individual part
118:03
of the system and then we need to be
118:05
involved in communities that's why with
118:07
uber you know we've had outreach to Los
118:09
Angeles to dallas-fort Worth areas where
118:12
we can start the conversation understand
118:15
the community needs make sure that we're
118:16
reacting to those the last thing that we
118:19
need is to have a patchwork of
118:20
requirements across the country we
118:22
really need to have some consistency
118:24
that allows us to execute in a in a in a
118:27
scaled kind of way with the same
118:30
vehicles the same sort of operational
118:32
models tailored locally with Verte apart
118:35
locations and things like that to manage
118:37
noise privacy and other concerns but a
118:39
consistent overall model from a
118:41
regulatory standpoint as well as from an
118:42
operational standpoint if I may build on
118:47
mr. Thakur's point last point that did
118:51
this is a golden opportunity for the
118:53
country that we can actually do this
118:57
together in a very concerted and
119:00
systematic
119:02
we don't have to repeat the same way as
119:05
you mentioned the patch jobs that we did
119:07
6070 years ago so I think in the vehicle
119:12
certification side industry has been
119:14
working really hard to get there and I'm
119:18
very optimistic that industry partners
119:21
will get there and from government
119:23
perspective FAA and NASA have been
119:25
working really well together to enable
119:29
this new capability so I think again my
119:33
point is that this is one chance that we
119:37
can actually design the system right and
119:40
everybody public and private working
119:43
together to come up with a robust system
119:46
as best as we can design and from the
119:50
get-go so I think we're all working
119:53
together we're just representing various
119:56
small segments of community but I can
120:00
assure you that and a lot of entities
120:04
are working together in this field I
120:07
would have the you know you can never
120:09
start speaking to regulators early
120:12
enough when it comes to aviation in the
120:14
sense because you're always pushing the
120:15
envelope on your or bringing technology
120:17
to the fore which they don't necessarily
120:19
have expertise in-house and so that's
120:22
one of the foremost reasons for starting
120:25
early I think in this case you know as I
120:27
said earlier I see a model for a cable
120:29
model for air traffic control services
120:32
just because it's just not practical in
120:34
my view to have the fa doing air traffic
120:37
management inside urban areas a section
120:39
so I think there's going to be a new a
120:42
new sense for certification for
120:44
certifying the companies and the
120:47
entities that are doing the air traffic
120:48
management which we haven't had to do
120:50
before because that was all internal to
120:51
the FAA so I think there's going to be
120:54
need for regulations and and processes
120:57
for making sure that the folks who are
120:59
actually managing the traffic are doing
121:01
so in the way that you'd like them to so
121:03
that's one area which I think is
121:05
slightly different than we've had before
121:07
in aviation where you know it was just
121:09
about the vehicles and the operators but
121:11
not about air traffic control now we'll
121:12
have to be able to do certification
121:14
around all
121:14
and we'll have to make it nimble you
121:17
know one of the things about aviation is
121:19
we have very rigorous standards and
121:22
implicitly and in some cases explicitly
121:24
we get some release and liability some
121:28
of those standards have quite honor us
121:29
and take a long time and if you want not
121:33
if we don't want to throttle the growth
121:35
in this industry we'll have to figure
121:37
out a model that is more nimble who
121:38
regards the certification and that's
121:40
something that I think would require
121:41
some legislation at some point I think
121:44
there's where Congress comes in because
121:46
we represent different constituencies
121:48
and we'll have a lot of concerns that
121:50
both positive and negative what about
121:53
other countries technology-wise looks
121:57
like that would be a an area that you
122:00
could collaborate with are you doing any
122:02
of that with other nations I will say
122:07
that from a regulatory perspective we've
122:09
had a lot of cooperation from other
122:11
international civil aviation authorities
122:12
particularly eásá so the new part 23
122:15
amendment 64 is harmonized with CS 23mm
122:18
at five so that is very beneficial for
122:20
the industry at large I would call it
122:22
regulations I was mainly thinking about
122:24
technology wise and it was like get
122:29
around my district but a lot of
122:30
machinery comes from Germany other
122:32
countries his techni is this something
122:34
that you could could possibly get with
122:36
other nations own to look at so member
122:43
of 26 Member States organization called
122:47
International Forum for aviation
122:49
research so we NASA was a founding
122:52
member along with the German Aerospace
122:54
agency some 10 years ago when we formed
122:58
this did two members our government
123:01
backed or sponsor the research
123:03
organizations so we're working to find
123:06
out what the pre competitive but common
123:10
technologies that we can raise the water
123:12
level together and also harmonizing some
123:15
of the technologies were standard
123:17
possibly so we are working with them and
123:20
also we're working heavily with FAA
123:23
which represents United States to the
123:26
International Civil Aviation
123:27
Organization as mr. treeger mentions so
123:31
a lot work needs to be done and I think
123:34
you're pointing out a very important
123:36
point still a lot needs to be done but I
123:39
think the necessary parties are working
123:41
together thank you so much I yield back
123:44
mr. chairman Thank You mr. norman the
123:45
german from florida mr. Dunn is
123:47
recognized for his questions thank you
123:49
very much mr. chairman for for having
123:51
this meeting I mean really thank you
123:54
this is so fun this is this is catnip to
123:57
aviation enthusiasts so many of us you
124:01
know I've spent hours poring over
124:02
Popular Mechanics magazines many of
124:05
which were printed before anybody on the
124:06
panel was born pictures of flying cars
124:10
and you know looking at that stuff so
124:13
it's exciting to actually have a chance
124:15
to to look at this enough
124:17
can I call this a professional manner my
124:21
wife my wife and sons they fly I'm not a
124:25
pilot but they all do and we've flown
124:27
into Oshkosh for fun on number of times
124:29
Oshkosh started yesterday by the way if
124:31
I was there right now
124:33
could I be shopping for flying cars
124:36
pandal anybody know I could be shopping
124:41
for a flying car today if I was in
124:43
Oshkosh Wisconsin let the record reflect
124:45
that that's just amazing so cool so I'm
124:50
not gonna ask any technical questions I
124:52
think you guys are smarter than me you
124:53
could solve all the FAA questions and
124:55
and you know the hybrid and the and
124:58
everything and the balance wait I think
125:00
you're gonna have to have autonomous
125:01
because let's face it you know flying
125:03
planes is serious business but what I
125:06
want to know if from this very learned
125:08
panel is of all these examples of flying
125:12
cars here which one or two do you want
125:15
the most and I just want you to go write
125:16
down the panel tell me which one do you
125:17
think is the coolest stock start with
125:19
you doctor see everybody likes one
125:25
all right what is but I not generically
125:29
I
125:30
like intermodal convenient way to do
125:34
this
125:34
so whatever the designs may be and
125:37
whatever the companies may be it should
125:40
be very seamless from my tour okay so
125:44
all the way George George okay that's
125:46
great sort of the Jetsons thing all
125:48
right did you like the Aston Martin
125:50
version that's pretty cool I'm a little
125:53
bit of car nut so that that was really
125:56
fancy dr. Clark
125:59
so I've mixed Minds here because as Miss
126:02
D she would tell you I used to teach her
126:04
husband when he was an undergrad and as
126:06
dr. Allison will tell you my one of my
126:08
PhD students is lead analyst and
126:11
optimizer and modeler so I have interest
126:16
in in both solutions I gotta tell you
126:20
mr. chairman I'm and other members I am
126:23
a James Bond fan I knew it and I'm also
126:27
a Jetsons fan so I actually like the
126:31
idea of being able to leave your house
126:33
and and basically be able to go from
126:36
door to door I mean started doing
126:37
door-to-doors ultimate right that's what
126:38
that's what we care about
126:39
that's it so and well mr. Ellison you
126:42
care to respond so we have we have five
126:46
amazing vehicle partners with uber
126:48
elevate means I'm very excited to see
126:49
all five of those those vehicles fly
126:51
sometime soon so you don't have one that
126:55
you would maybe want to chuck in the
126:56
garage first I I'm very excited to see
127:00
all of them fly mr. Thakur's a vehicle
127:04
from Bell will also be one of the one of
127:07
the great ones I'm obviously biased
127:11
towards the Bell solution and and and I
127:14
do I do believe that the air taxi will
127:17
bring a sweeping change to how we move
127:20
about cities and I'm excited about that
127:22
one because I think it will be here
127:24
sooner than the door to door solution
127:25
and it's something that all of us will
127:27
be able to take part in so and if you'd
127:30
like to experience that we have a we
127:31
have a virtual experience that I that I
127:33
welcome any of you to come take when you
127:35
get the key you will share the
127:36
information with the staff so they can
127:38
get it to us absolutely thank you so
127:40
that would be very important so please
127:43
I solved my dilemma pick one
127:46
specifically because I wanted a
127:48
transition so fortunately next year I
127:51
should be able to get to really fly a
127:53
transition again and use that vehicle a
127:55
little bit it's not quite there even our
127:57
mobility that we're talking about but to
127:58
be able to fly and drive the same
127:59
vehicle I'm very excited about that
128:00
building and flying a vehicle that I
128:03
helped create was one of my career girls
128:04
so I was I agree okay I have a very
128:06
large district and I think you've just
128:09
solved one of the problems I have here
128:11
now which which one of these should I
128:13
choose to commute across a district
128:15
that's 350 miles long eight hours of
128:19
driving on the interstate more if you
128:21
take the back roads
128:22
lots of backgrounds lots of farms well I
128:26
would recommend tf2 for you and that DMT
128:28
right there's a 200-mile minimum range
128:31
with ground vehicle integration so you
128:34
be able to get the back roads and the
128:35
vertical flight component what options
128:37
should i order we can talk about
128:40
customization mr. chairman let me say
128:44
thank you again for having this this
128:45
meeting it's it's it's it's been like
128:47
one of the high points of my time in
128:49
Congress I yield back
128:51
Thank You mr. Dunne I think she'll offer
128:53
you a discount but that's another story
128:55
now miss Bonamici before I recognize you
128:57
gentlewoman from Oregon did you come for
128:59
the free flying car or did you come we
129:02
only have two left so we're getting to
129:04
the end yes mr. chairman the gentleman
129:08
is recognized
129:09
Thank You mr. chairman and my apologies
129:11
for not being here for your testimony I
129:13
was in another committee which is not
129:14
nearly as much fun
129:15
I know one was laughing there but thank
129:18
you so much for your your testimony
129:20
which I have looked through and I you
129:21
know I frequently hear from my
129:23
constituents out in Northwest Oregon
129:25
they complain to us about everything but
129:28
including traffic and I hear from
129:31
communities and businesses and
129:32
individuals about the need to invest in
129:34
infrastructure and how we put people
129:37
back to work and how do we move people
129:38
how do we move goods and my vision for
129:41
infrastructure isn't just limited to
129:42
roads and bridges we need to invest in
129:47
new transportation policy new
129:49
transportation infrastructure from
129:50
high-speed rail to bicycle pedestrian
129:52
pathways and I'm interested in hearing
129:54
from you about expand
129:56
this vision to include urban air
129:57
mobility it's I'm sure it's something
129:59
that would be quite popular in the
130:01
Pacific Northwest one of the things I
130:04
want to get to also is that I think the
130:07
workforce in this field is going to need
130:10
to be innovative and entrepreneurial and
130:13
I can tell that from from your testimony
130:15
which I read and those characteristics
130:17
require creative and critical thinking I
130:20
also work on a lot of education issues
130:22
and I'm the co-chair in the founder of
130:24
the bipartisan steam caucus with
130:27
representative Stefanik from New York
130:28
where we're working on ways that we can
130:31
educate people who are creative and
130:33
innovative through integration of Arts
130:35
and Design and traditional STEM fields I
130:38
want to ask dr. Clark what steps is the
130:41
aviation research community making to
130:43
make sure that students get those for
130:45
well-rounded education for the urban air
130:48
mobility industry and how especially how
130:51
those efforts might change as technology
130:53
develops how are you how are you
130:55
educating you know creative critical
130:56
thinkers thank you for the question
130:59
Carson one of the things that we're
131:03
doing first of all is a lot of the
131:05
universities including my own have been
131:07
changing the curriculum and updating the
131:09
curriculum over time to include more
131:13
what would I would say holistic topics
131:15
and the second thing is that we've also
131:18
been trying to introduce a lot more the
131:20
idea of innovation and at the
131:22
undergraduate level to try to I was
131:24
mentioning earlier before you stepped in
131:26
that I've never seen the level of
131:27
excitement that is there is now amongst
131:29
aerospace students in particular and the
131:32
fact that people are out there starting
131:34
companies or a thing or coming up with
131:36
ideas and trying to look for investors
131:38
around new types of vehicles so from the
131:41
educational perspective moving beyond
131:42
just you know engineering science in the
131:45
here's an equation here is the solution
131:47
to the equation and that's the end it's
131:50
thinking about economic implications
131:52
thinking about the regulatory
131:54
implications bringing those in and to
131:56
credit abet which the accreditation
131:58
agency has been pushing that for the
131:59
last decade or more and then but there's
132:02
a definitely an emphasis I know a
132:04
Georgia Tech we are trying to make sure
132:05
that every graduate of Georgia Tech has
132:09
some X some thought and has given some
132:12
thought and has done something around
132:14
innovation and and basically
132:16
entrepreneurship which I think goes
132:18
towards again generating jobs and
132:21
opportunities in the u.s. that's great
132:23
to hear we've had many conversations
132:24
about how do we educate people today for
132:26
the jobs that we can imagine in your
132:28
testimony you talked about all of your
132:31
vision for urban air mobility will
132:32
eventually lead to autonomous vehicles
132:34
hovering just hundreds of feet above us
132:36
I remember in Portland when they built
132:38
an aerial tram to get from one part of
132:39
the medical school to another and people
132:41
who lived underneath it panicked
132:43
and of course with the UAV conversation
132:45
can you elaborate on what steps you are
132:48
taking to protect the privacy of
132:49
consumers and individuals affected in
132:52
the surrounding flight path whoever
132:54
wants to I mean for me I think the steps
133:00
that need to be taken are pretty
133:03
straightforward we don't understand that
133:07
trade-off between utility and privacy
133:09
that that is inherent in every one of us
133:12
I spent time in Netherlands and they
133:15
have great open windows and and in big
133:18
in cities in the Netherlands and that's
133:19
when I realized that privacy is a
133:21
different thing than anonymity so that's
133:23
that's one thing that we have to really
133:25
understand and then the second is what's
133:27
that trade-off that what are people
133:29
willing to give up for the utility
133:30
that's another thing I mean people give
133:32
up lots of information on their cell
133:33
phones and stuff because they find it
133:35
useful and so that's something that
133:37
needs to be understood once we have that
133:39
we can actually start doing modeling and
133:41
optimizing where we put vert reports
133:43
what kind of trajectories need to be put
133:45
in place so it's a three step process
133:46
figuring out what people what that
133:49
trade-off is figuring out the models to
133:51
model it and then optimising in the
133:53
remaining few seconds anybody want to
133:54
weigh in on changes we might need to
133:56
make as we're considering infrastructure
133:58
investments so thank you for the
134:02
question I we we think about this very
134:05
much as multimodal solutions and so uber
134:07
is interested in different modes of
134:09
transportation and recently introducing
134:10
bikes and and other things we we see
134:14
elevate the same way that this is a type
134:17
of transit system that will integrate
134:19
into other things
134:20
and it introduces one key feature that
134:23
is not available right now in most of
134:25
the transportation system which is that
134:26
the the cost of building out this type
134:28
of an infrastructure doesn't scale by
134:30
the per foot of Road ulay or trakula or
134:33
tunnel you dig
134:34
perhaps it scales with the nodes that
134:37
you put in and so it's a nodal scaling
134:39
network so the cost scaling is very
134:41
different than the way we think about
134:42
transportation systems cost scaling
134:45
right now and we think that will be a
134:46
key feature down the road of so to speak
134:49
of how how this this type of a system
134:52
integrates into the rest of the the
134:54
transportation system at large
134:55
thank you I yield back mr. chairman
134:57
thank you miss Boone amici this
134:58
concludes our hearing today and I just
135:00
want to thank all of our expert
135:02
witnesses for being here for their
135:04
testimony obviously this is aspirational
135:07
as soon-to-be we hope real-time and
135:09
realistic and we're going to do
135:12
something we haven't done before which
135:13
is to make a presentation to you all so
135:16
if you will stay close to the table
135:18
here's the beginning of what we're going
135:21
to present you and let me say if you
135:22
can't take it with you and that would be
135:24
totally understandable we'll figure out
135:25
a way to get it to you one way or the
135:27
other or maybe you can figure that out
135:29
too so I'll come around in and hand you
135:32
the package with the flying car by the
135:34
way the flying car has its wings out as
135:37
you get it but the wings actually
135:38
collapse and fold vertically against the
135:41
body of the car and you simply push one
135:43
button and the wings come out horizontal
135:46
and you're off the ground and 15 feet
135:48
you can't beat it I do not I do not get
135:50
a commission actually I don't know who
135:52
makes them exactly mr. chairman our mr.
135:54
Chairman I think you've know introduced
135:57
are probably my household because I have
135:59
twin boys but they all let it they see
136:01
the record will remain open for two
136:03
weeks for additional written comments
136:04
and written questions from members and
136:05
we stand adjourned
136:31
you
136:54
you
137:43
you